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The teak on Eclipse had been ignored for some time when we cleaned her up.
We used Don's formula and it worked really well.Rick
On 8/6/08, Paul Lefebvre < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Tor:
As per Don Casey's Teak Cleaning article, a 75/25 liquid laundry detergent and bleach may do the trick if you don't want to use oxalic acid.
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/29.htm
Paul
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Bob
Fantanstic…a bona fide mechanical reason to give the Admiral when I buy another gadget..
good suggestion… will explore the starter temperature angle..
Thanks
RickOn 8/5/08, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Rick,
Let me think about that. It could be that the engine is, indeed, running hot and needs to cool down before it's easy to start. It could also be that the starter motor's bearings are going bad so that it requires higher starting currents when hot. You can purchase a really inexpensive infra-red thermometer from Radio Shack that you just point and press a button to get the temp -it works from like -100 to + 500 or something ridiculous. The starter shouldn't get much warmer than the engine block, especially if it's disengaged. The engine block should get to around 180-200 degrees anywhere you point. The transmission might get warmer. But everything should be well below 250 degrees.
Be careful as 140 degrees is scalding. It does sound temperature related.
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob,
Last season the 8D was working with the engine cool or hot, although it progressively became sluggish at cranking a hot engine. The 8D finally gave up the ghost back in June of this year and I replaced it with the group 27. It had difficulty starting a hot engine from the get go. It starts it fine when the engine is cool.
All of my house bank batteries are of the 6V wet cell variety and the starting Group 27 is a 12v wet cell.
Thanks
RickOn Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick, there are several reasons a group 27 won't start the engine, especially if it did last year – one, it's low on water or was at some point, two, the engine is running hot and you don't know it yet, and three, the engine is still 'tight' from being new. That's the least likely. I use a group 31 for my start battery on a W58. But if you have a charging system that expects a fancy battery (like AGMs ) and you're running flooded batteries you may be cooking the group 27. It will show up as bad long before the big 8Ds show up the problem.
Hope that helps…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Bob,
Last season the 8D was working with the engine cool or hot, although it progressively became sluggish at cranking a hot engine. The 8D finally gave up the ghost back in June of this year and I replaced it with the group 27. It had difficulty starting a hot engine from the get go. It starts it fine when the engine is cool.
All of my house bank batteries are of the 6V wet cell variety and the starting Group 27 is a 12v wet cell.
Thanks
RickOn Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick, there are several reasons a group 27 won't start the engine, especially if it did last year – one, it's low on water or was at some point, two, the engine is running hot and you don't know it yet, and three, the engine is still 'tight' from being new. That's the least likely. I use a group 31 for my start battery on a W58. But if you have a charging system that expects a fancy battery (like AGMs ) and you're running flooded batteries you may be cooking the group 27. It will show up as bad long before the big 8Ds show up the problem.
Hope that helps…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
John
The engine can be cooling just from sailing or anchoring…
I haven't yet but will check the voltage at the start battery when the Duo Charge sees that the House Bank is charging and above a threshold voltage either from 110 battery charger or engine/alternator.
Thanks.
RickOn Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Dale
Don't know anything about hard dodgers… but…
I saw the P424 previously known as Grits in a slip at York River Yacht Haven on Sarah's Creek (off York River in southern Chesapeake Bay) the weekend of July 4. It's new name looked Polynesian or some such and I don't remember what it was… (you could still see Grits on the hull)
She is a sloop.We were anchored up the creek and I saw it on a dinghy ride and almost missed it. No one was above decks to wave to and we didn't have time to stop and say hello…Rick
EclipseOn 7/29/08, dale < ([email][/email])> wrote:
The Admiral is interested in finding out if anyone has a hard dodger on their 424. What do you like/dislike about it? She has seen a few other boats with hard dodgers and thinks we should have one. She heard of one that was in the area (North Carolina) but cannot find it, previously named “Grits,” and she heard about another in California. What are the group’s opinions on a hard dodger?
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My Link 1000 shows 0.2 amp consumption with all items off. But when you do the math during an extended absence it is closer to 0.25 amps. Link folks offered to adjust to the expected 0.1 but it just didn't seem worth it.
Rick
EclipseOn 7/21/08, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi,
With the XBM and all systems off, there should be about .1 amp/battery bank draw from the system itself. I have the new link 2000, but put the XBM in my Ericson.
Bob
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 12:56 PM, sumocean < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hey Guys
I am still finishing up work on the boat. I installed the xbm battery monitor for the house bank, I'm using the old analog volt meters for the start and the windlass battery. I haven't yet syncronized the monitor but I noticed that I had a -1.5 amp draw on the xbm with everything turned off other than the bilge pump float switch. The switch is a water witch. I got on of those because with the old tank looking like it could spring a leak at any time I wanted to only pump water not diesel. I didn't have time to pull the fuse to see if that was the draw. What is the normal reading for a boat not connected to shore power and with all the systems turned off? I would think that it would be close to zero if not zero.
Linus
—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
I installed the 1-8 tank SCAD monitor this winter with sensors on 2 of the 3 water tanks. I liked the potential to add fuel, waste and propane at a later date. Installation was not bad. Instructions were very precise and clear. So far it works as advertised.
Rick
Eclipse #73On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM, svtopaz < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I found a kink in the overflow loop. I replaced it but have not check to see if it makes a diference. I am going to put new o-rings in. I would love to have the stainless plates but it is to much $$$. Same with the gauges. The hose I replaced was very dirty and very old. Some one also told me about a fitting I can put on my hose to keep the pressure at a certain level. Think I will look into that also.
Barbara
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I took one down to the boat and placed it on deck. Actual installation will be a winter project. It appears that I will need to place a 1/2″ to 5/8″ block under the outboard leg to make everything fit. Bob did you need to do this or did they fit the curvature of the deck OK?
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:18 AM, alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Anyone install the mast pulpits yet?
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I thought that filling it with oil might somehow help it cool itself… sounds like it isn't necessary..
RickOn 5/7/08, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I just disconnected the water. Is there a reason to cap it off and fill it?
I’ve hit it with a IR thermometer after running 7 hours and it was 90 degrees or so.
On 5/6/08 7:23 PM, Rick Dugger wrote :
Linus
I found something similar in mine. I capped off the raw water in and out and then filled the space with AMS synthetic 30W oil. Others on the list have done something similar. The V Drive has never gotten more than warm…
Rick
Eclipse #73On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Linus Sumocean < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi all
I just cleaned out the vdrive for the first time ever. I didn't know what to expect to see when I took off the top cover. What I saw was a solid black chunk that looked like old rusted metal. The yard manager suggested that I use delimer to eat the crud and then flush it with fresh water. I did it and opened the cover and there was the same black chunk. It was solid and had the shape of the cover cast into it. After two hours of scratching with a screwdriver, wire brush and using the shop vac it was shiny and looked like new. The amazing thing to me was that water even could pass through, but when I was flushing it out water was flowing full stream. I think that most of the funk was sediment from the creek. The bottom here is very soft mud and it seemed that it has protected the metal in the vdrive. The cleaning will be added to my maintenance list for each season to prevent it from getting so bad.
The primary reason that people have replaced the vdrive is corrosion from the raw water cooling, correct? If I don't have any leaks and the cooling chamber is in good shape so I should be good for a while longer I hope.
The water inlet for the Cummins engine is 90 degrees to the center of the boat and the hose is in a tight turn to fit onto the the nipple on the raw water pump and fit in the engine box. When I was trying to tighten the hose clamp it kept slipping off, of course the soapy water made it slippery so after it has dried it may be OK. The hose should take on the bend after being there for a while but I was thinking of putting a 90 and a short section of hose to make the hose run with less stress. So long as I use bronze for the 90 and good hose clamps this should be a safe way to do it shouldn't it? I just worry about weird stuff sometimes. The fact that the 90 will only be supported by the hose is what is bugging me I guess. Any ideas or input will be appreciated.Linus
SUMOCEAN #34Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Linus
I found something similar in mine. I capped off the raw water in and out and then filled the space with AMS synthetic 30W oil. Others on the list have done something similar. The V Drive has never gotten more than warm…
Rick
Eclipse #73On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Linus Sumocean < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi all
I just cleaned out the vdrive for the first time ever. I didn't know what to expect to see when I took off the top cover. What I saw was a solid black chunk that looked like old rusted metal. The yard manager suggested that I use delimer to eat the crud and then flush it with fresh water. I did it and opened the cover and there was the same black chunk. It was solid and had the shape of the cover cast into it. After two hours of scratching with a screwdriver, wire brush and using the shop vac it was shiny and looked like new. The amazing thing to me was that water even could pass through, but when I was flushing it out water was flowing full stream. I think that most of the funk was sediment from the creek. The bottom here is very soft mud and it seemed that it has protected the metal in the vdrive. The cleaning will be added to my maintenance list for each season to prevent it from getting so bad.
The primary reason that people have replaced the vdrive is corrosion from the raw water cooling, correct? If I don't have any leaks and the cooling chamber is in good shape so I should be good for a while longer I hope.
The water inlet for the Cummins engine is 90 degrees to the center of the boat and the hose is in a tight turn to fit onto the the nipple on the raw water pump and fit in the engine box. When I was trying to tighten the hose clamp it kept slipping off, of course the soapy water made it slippery so after it has dried it may be OK. The hose should take on the bend after being there for a while but I was thinking of putting a 90 and a short section of hose to make the hose run with less stress. So long as I use bronze for the 90 and good hose clamps this should be a safe way to do it shouldn't it? I just worry about weird stuff sometimes. The fact that the 90 will only be supported by the hose is what is bugging me I guess. Any ideas or input will be appreciated.Linus
SUMOCEAN #34Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
