- This topic has 75 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
Well it’s time to move the queen, Regina Oceani, back to salt water. We
working on setting up the trucking for early August and I stated to look
at the insurance for the boat being in Melbourne, Florida. I was
amazed at the BoatUS $3890 quote for a $125,000 hull value ($3645 with
an $85,000 agreed value).I know the insurance discussion has graced these pages many times
before, but I thought I might ask for some current inputs and
thoughts. Has anyone worked with Al Golden? Other thoughts?Thanks,
Pete
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
This discussion already has me terrified. I’ve never had insurance on a boat other than my own two hands and ground tackle (Hugo did me a very dirty deed in Antigua) and with the upcoming new purchase of a 424 we have briefly talked about possibly getting insurance. Pete, those numbers are mind boggling to me! Would those numbers include travel south past the Bahamas’s or is that just to stay in Florida?
-
Pete,
I’ve used IMIS (Markel) for the past 8 years. This year my premium in FL
was about $1800 with an additional $550 for Hurricane coverage. I almost
skipped the Hurricane coverage because Jax almost never gets hit by a major
storm; however this area is subject to strong storm surges so I took it.
Melbourne is not subject to strong surges so I would likely have not taken
coverage if I kept my boat there. I plan to go to the Bahamas this fall
and that will require a $170 additional premium.
IMIS is an easy company to deal with, although I’ve never made a claim.
The Jackline policy is the only one I found that would cover me for
single-handed trips, although only for 24 hours. They are also one of the
few that will cover short-handed (2 person) ocean voyages. Boat/US just
isn’t in that business. When I sailed to Bermuda in 2001 I used Boat/US.
Initially they wouldn’t write the coverage because 2 of the 5 persons on
board had no ocean sailing experience. Those persons both had over 15
years of coastal sailing experience. Fortunately I had a friend in the
underwriting dept who convinced the VP that we were a reasonable risk.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Pete Dubler wrote:
Well it’s time to move the queen, Regina Oceani, back to salt water. We
working on setting up the trucking for early August and I stated to look at
the insurance for the boat being in Melbourne, Florida. I was amazed at
the BoatUS $3890 quote for a $125,000 hull value ($3645 with an $85,000
agreed value).I know the insurance discussion has graced these pages many times before,
but I thought I might ask for some current inputs and thoughts. Has
anyone worked with Al Golden? Other thoughts?Thanks,
Pete
______________________________**_________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/**listinfo/maillist_pearson424.**org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
-
-
I had insurance through IMIS and found Gary Golden to be a very good agent. My cost was $1885 for $80,000 in coverage with a 10% deductible.
I recommend them.
There was a $650 premium to go south of the Turks and Caicos.
Also, I can recommend Westland Marina in Titusville. No surge! The lock at the Cape entrance results in very little tide and the breakwater next to the marina does a great job of stopping wind generated waves, Great people at Westland, management is terrific and you can work on your boat with no hassles.
Joe,
formerly Half Moon
________________________________
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
-
If I remember correctly three years ago Al Golden insured me for the entire Caribbean basin including Bermuda and also allowed me to single hand for not more than 30 hours and I believe I paid $2800.
I am currently insured with boat US for the great lakes and I pay a little bit less thousand dollars.
Al Golden is a great company to work.
I question your hull value. with the current number 424’s that have been sold, I kind of think 125 is pretty high, And whether once surveyed whether an insurance company will actually declare a hull value of 125,000.
Just saying
AlanSent from my iPhone
On Jul 5, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Pete Dubler wrote:
Well it’s time to move the queen, Regina Oceani, back to salt water. We working on setting up the trucking for early August and I stated to look at the insurance for the boat being in Melbourne, Florida. I was amazed at the BoatUS $3890 quote for a $125,000 hull value ($3645 with an $85,000 agreed value).
I know the insurance discussion has graced these pages many times before, but I thought I might ask for some current inputs and thoughts. Has anyone worked with Al Golden? Other thoughts?
Thanks,
Pete
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I recall that Berkshire’s Seaworthy used to be the Boat US underwriter, but no more, as of a few years ago. My premium of $1500 yr includes an agreed upon hull value of $70k. I added a Bahamas rider in Jan this year which covered down to Turks & Cacaos for about $35.00. No one asked about experience or singlehanding. I have no idea if the insurance is any good, I’ve never used it. Hope I don’t have to.
-
-
According to July 2013 issue of Seaworthy, a Boat US insurance magazine, Boat US is switching from Continental Casualty Company (CNA) to National Liability and Fire Insurance Company (NL&F) because NL&F and Boat US are both Berkshire and Hathaway. They talk about serving us better, not a word about serving us cheaper.
The article ends by saying that their underwriters would be delighted to hear from us to discuss our policies.
Quent -
Many of the large agents that cover homes and cars also cover boats.I have properties and cars with Allstate- valued the boat at $125000 at pay approx $800 per year- for anywhere in US coastal waters.You could add Bahamas or Carribean for the months you actually leave the US coast.I had raised the coverage last year-prior to that I was paying less than $500 /yr for $90,000.
________________________________
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Joe Shimkonis
-
(deleted long rant about my hatred for insurance)……
……. Is anyone familiar with policies that are reduced if you keep the boat above or below certain latitudes during hurricane season? -
Joe, that sounds like good news. I’m going to look into that with our agent, as we have Allstate with properties and vehicles.
-
That’s impressive, Joe. I don’t have properties & cars with Allstate, but I
may have something even better; a son-in-law who owns a couple of Allstate
agencies. Maybe I ought to ask him about this. I wonder if we could work out
a group rate for us 424 owners.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Hey Tor, reading this made me lose my breathe a little bit! I like deals and group rates. I can’t help how much I hate insurance, all it’s ever done is take my money. And believe me the properties and the veichles are on our short list to be gone, everything we own is for sale! It’s just that we have never spent this much on a boat and are a little skittish that it is on the lower east coast and we no doubt will not have the time to get her out of there before November. Son-in-laws are somewhat maliable right? @Silverheels wrote:
That’s impressive, Joe. I don’t have properties & cars with Allstate, but I
may have something even better; a son-in-law who owns a couple of Allstate
agencies. Maybe I ought to ask him about this. I wonder if we could work out
a group rate for us 424 owners.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
East coast. Bahamas is $100 more per year. South of there is
separately quoted based on offshore experience.
On 7/5/2013 10:39 AM, Page Two wrote:This discussion already has me terrified. I’ve never had insurance on a boat other than my own two hands and ground tackle (Hugo did me a very dirty deed in Antigua) and with the upcoming new purchase of a 424 we have briefly talked about possibly getting insurance. Pete, those numbers are mind boggling to me! Would those numbers include travel south past the Bahamas’s or is that just to stay in Florida?
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Do you have a cap’n license John? Could you refer me to an agent?
On 7/5/2013 10:46 AM, John Stevenson wrote:
Pete,
I’ve used IMIS (Markel) for the past 8 years. This year my premium in FL
was about $1800 with an additional $550 for Hurricane coverage. I almost
skipped the Hurricane coverage because Jax almost never gets hit by a major
storm; however this area is subject to strong storm surges so I took it.
Melbourne is not subject to strong surges so I would likely have not taken
coverage if I kept my boat there. I plan to go to the Bahamas this fall
and that will require a $170 additional premium.
IMIS is an easy company to deal with, although I’ve never made a claim.
The Jackline policy is the only one I found that would cover me for
single-handed trips, although only for 24 hours. They are also one of the
few that will cover short-handed (2 person) ocean voyages. Boat/US just
isn’t in that business. When I sailed to Bermuda in 2001 I used Boat/US.
Initially they wouldn’t write the coverage because 2 of the 5 persons on
board had no ocean sailing experience. Those persons both had over 15
years of coastal sailing experience. Fortunately I had a friend in the
underwriting dept who convinced the VP that we were a reasonable risk.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Pete Dubler wrote:
Well it’s time to move the queen, Regina Oceani, back to salt water. We
working on setting up the trucking for early August and I stated to look at
the insurance for the boat being in Melbourne, Florida. I was amazed at
the BoatUS $3890 quote for a $125,000 hull value ($3645 with an $85,000
agreed value).I know the insurance discussion has graced these pages many times before,
but I thought I might ask for some current inputs and thoughts. Has
anyone worked with Al Golden? Other thoughts?Thanks,
Pete
______________________________**_________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/**listinfo/maillist_pearson424.**org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Do you have an agent you work with? Everyone appreciates referrals I
imagine.On 7/5/2013 10:55 AM, cstewart wrote:
Pete: congratulations on getting Regina Oceana wet again. Can’t wait to see her in salt water. I just got my insurance renewal and it is $1500 year for all US and Canada waters which includes our home port in Gulf Shores, hurricane alley. It is with Seaworthy Insurance a Berkshire Hathaway company.
"People cannot discover new lands until they have the courage to lose sight of the shore."
Andre Gide 1869-1951_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Remind me Joe, where are you based?
On 7/5/2013 2:11 PM, joe shimkonis wrote:
Quote:Many of the large agents that cover homes and cars also cover boats.I have properties and cars with Allstate- valued the boat at $125000 at pay approx $800 per year- for anywhere in US coastal waters.You could add Bahamas or Carribean for the months you actually leave the US coast.I had raised the coverage last year-prior to that I was paying less than $500 /yr for $90,000.________________________________
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
hhhhooo Tor… now you’re talking… (didn’t know there were little Tors)
On 7/5/2013 3:34 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:That’s impressive, Joe. I don’t have properties & cars with Allstate, but I
may have something even better; a son-in-law who owns a couple of Allstate
agencies. Maybe I ought to ask him about this. I wonder if we could work out
a group rate for us 424 owners.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Go for it. Group rates would be awesome
S
.Sent from my iPad
On Jul 5, 2013, at 4:34 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:That’s impressive, Joe. I don’t have properties & cars with Allstate, but I
may have something even better; a son-in-law who owns a couple of Allstate
agencies. Maybe I ought to ask him about this. I wonder if we could work out
a group rate for us 424 owners.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I’ll run it by my son-in-law.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Actually, one Toress and three grand-Toritos.
🙂
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
-
Quent,
I’ve emailed my son-in-law about a group boat insurance rate for Pearson 424
owners. I’ll let everyone know what he says as soon as I hear back. (Come to
think of it, if it can work for us, it could work for a whole boatload of
other owners groups. Damn, I could be on to something here.)Yeah, wouldn’t that be a hoot if a bunch of sailors helped put my grandkids
through college. Hey, maybe I could go with them. Get a degree. Maybe even
amount to something when I grow up.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Let’s not get carried away Tor… at least not in regards to growing up.
Pete
On 7/5/2013 6:23 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Quent,I’ve emailed my son-in-law about a group boat insurance rate for Pearson 424
owners. I’ll let everyone know what he says as soon as I hear back. (Come to
think of it, if it can work for us, it could work for a whole boatload of
other owners groups. Damn, I could be on to something here.)Yeah, wouldn’t that be a hoot if a bunch of sailors helped put my grandkids
through college. Hey, maybe I could go with them. Get a degree. Maybe even
amount to something when I grow up.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
-
-
Fear not, it’ll never happen. Peter Pan forever!
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
-
There but for the grace of God sit I.
T
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Hey Bill,
Your email below didn’t get to the group because when you clicked Reply to
my last one, your email program replied to me only. I inadvertently do that
a lot when corresponding with this forum, but am learning to click Reply All
instead. That either addresses your reply to just the group, or else to the
individual sender and the group. Either way you get through.Tor
Captain Tor Pinney
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
-
Gentlemen and ladies, I am having a hard time following this discussion, probably because we have not identified in this discussion whether we are talking about: collision, liability, pollution liability or all of the above together. Would whoever is taking the lead in this discussion with promises of great savings Please tell us precisely what type of coverage and what limits are we speaking about. Thank you.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Elaine Patton wrote:
Quote:Hi Guys,Count us in.
Elaine & Ted Riley
Bel Esprit II________________________________
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
-
Sorry friend, that does not cut it. Insurance for what? Liability? Collision damage, pollution and fuel spill? This happens to be an area of my expertise.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2013, at 11:52 AM, “quent” wrote:
It’s boat insurance, Thatcher. Have a little faith in the regulators.
Quent_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Hi Thatcher,
As far as I know, there are no promises being made here. Look at how this
thread started. Joe said he got a great rate from his Allstate agent. I said
I have a son-in-law who owns an Allstate agency, and it occurred to me that
maybe he could put together a group rate through Allstate for us 424 owners.
It’s 4th of July weekend and he’s offline. I’m sure he’ll respond to my
inquiry tomorrow or Monday, be it yay or nay or maybe. None of this matters
to me because, with one exception, I have self-insured my boats since 1973
and don’t care what insurance companies charge. I’m only proposing something
that might be of use to others, presumably you included. Your constructive
input will be especially welcome, I’m sure, since you’re an expert and I
know nothing about insurance (except that I don’t believe in it for myself).I opened my big mouth on the subject of mast pulpits and group rates 5 years
ago and it wound up costing me a good deal of work, but of course I’m happy
that it wound up benefiting so many in this group, including myself. Whether
this insurance idea amounts to anything, who knows? We’ll see. If it starts
turning into something, then that would be the time to pin down promises and
details. I’ll play monkey in the middle for another day or two (since it was
my suggestion and my son-in-law) and then step back and let the pro’s sort
things out.Meanwhile, enjoy the holiday weekend. No fireworks were in Tyrell Bay,
Carriacou, but calypso music is wafting across the harbor as I write and
life is good.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Thatcher,
As far as I know, there are no promises being made here. Look at how this
thread started. Joe said he got a great rate from his Allstate agent. I said
I have a son-in-law who owns an Allstate agency, and it occurred to me that
maybe he could put together a group rate through Allstate for us 424 owners.
It’s 4th of July weekend and he’s offline. I’m sure he’ll respond tomorrow
or Monday, yay or nay or maybe. None of this matters to me because I have
self-insured since 1973 and don’t care what insurance companies charge. I’m
only proposing something that might be of use to others, presumably you
included. Any constructive input will be most welcome, especially since
you’re an expert and I know nothing about insurance (except that I don’t
believe in it for myself).I opened my big mouth on the subject of mast pulpits and group rates 5 years
ago and it wound up costing me a good deal of work, but of course I’m happy
that it wound up benefiting so many in this group, including myself. Whether
this insurance idea amounts to anything, who knows? We’ll see. If it starts
turning into something, then that would be the time to pin down promises and
details. I’ll play monkey in the middle for another day or two (since it was
my suggestion and my son-in-law) and then step back and let the pro’s sort
things out.Meanwhile, enjoy the holiday weekend. No fireworks were in Tyrell Bay,
Carriacou, but calypso music is wafting across the harbor as I write and
life is good.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I just want to compare apples to apples instead of oranges and grapefruit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2013, at 1:09 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:Thatcher,As far as I know, there are no promises being made here. Look at how this
thread started. Joe said he got a great rate from his Allstate agent. I said
I have a son-in-law who owns an Allstate agency, and it occurred to me that
maybe he could put together a group rate through Allstate for us 424 owners.
It’s 4th of July weekend and he’s offline. I’m sure he’ll respond tomorrow
or Monday, yay or nay or maybe. None of this matters to me because I have
self-insured since 1973 and don’t care what insurance companies charge. I’m
only proposing something that might be of use to others, presumably you
included. Any constructive input will be most welcome, especially since
you’re an expert and I know nothing about insurance (except that I don’t
believe in it for myself).I opened my big mouth on the subject of mast pulpits and group rates 5 years
ago and it wound up costing me a good deal of work, but of course I’m happy
that it wound up benefiting so many in this group, including myself. Whether
this insurance idea amounts to anything, who knows? We’ll see. If it starts
turning into something, then that would be the time to pin down promises and
details. I’ll play monkey in the middle for another day or two (since it was
my suggestion and my son-in-law) and then step back and let the pro’s sort
things out.Meanwhile, enjoy the holiday weekend. No fireworks were in Tyrell Bay,
Carriacou, but calypso music is wafting across the harbor as I write and
life is good.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
And you’re right, that’s what needs to be done. Once we know there’s a
fruit salad on the table, then I hope for everyone’s sake that you’ll step
in, identify the ingredients and clarify the options. No one is better
qualified.Thanks,
Tor
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Pleasure.
Currently I have coverage from 37° North latitude to 17° South latitude east of the eastern border of Mexico and west of the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. The coverage includes hull valuation with a $500 deductible of $90,000, All third-party liability coverage up to 3 million, and corresponding pollution liability if there is a fuel spill subject to the same overall 3 million limit for liability. There is also a provision for uninsured boaters liability in the event that I am hit by a third-party or damaged by third party with no insurance. In addition the policy dovetails with an umbrella policy I carry to provide extra coverage. The basic marine policy costs me $1600 a year for basically four kinds of coverage. That’s why I am saying, the devil is in the details.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2013, at 3:19 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:And you’re right, that’s what needs to be done. Once we know there’s a
fruit salad on the table, then I hope for everyone’s sake that you’ll step
in, identify the ingredients and clarify the options. No one is better
qualified.Thanks,
Tor
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
And may you never need any of it, Thatcher (which is, of course, what the underwriter is betting). Clearly, there is much to consider. If a 424 group policy is possible and economically attractive, it will have to accommodate each individual’s needs. Boats in the Windward Islands can’t use a policy that ends at 17°N, and Dan in Hawaii doesn’t need mid-Atlantic coverage. Some will want higher (or lower) deductibles, and so on. It’ll be interesting to see if the needs of such a diverse “group” can be met.
My gripe with boat insurance, aside from the bloated premiums, are the controls and limitations they insist on writing into their policies. I’ve crossed oceans single-handed, have never (knock on wood) lost a boat or damaged another, and I know where it’s safe and unsafe to hang out during hurricane season. I choose not to compromise my lifestyle and freedom of choice to accommodate the greed-driven insecurities of some numbers cruncher in an office cubical in Omaha, Nebraska – and pay a lot of money for the privilege. That said, back in 1988 I found a Lloyd’s-affiliated company in London to insure my new Crealock 37, Sparrow, covering us with or without additional crew, trans-Atlantic, trans-Mediterranean, trans the entire Caribbean and US East Coast, and charged what I felt was a fair price. I was pleased to do business with them even though I never needed to make a claim. Last time I checked they had been absorbed by some other company and no longer insured boats. Pity.
Aside from that, I calculate that the money I have not paid to insurance companies over the past 30 years (including health insurance) has literally paid for Silverheels, entirely, including all of her upgrades. Thanks, State Farm!
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Toe, I have always thought you are one of the luckiest people I know. Now I know that I was correct. If I had not had boat insurance, car insurance and in two cases Umbrella liability, I would have been wiped out years ago.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2013, at 5:10 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:And may you never need any of it, Thatcher (which is, of course, what the underwriter is betting). Clearly, there is much to consider. If a 424 group policy is possible and economically attractive, it will have to accommodate each individual’s needs. Boats in the Windward Islands can’t use a policy that ends at 17°N, and Dan in Hawaii doesn’t need mid-Atlantic coverage. Some will want higher (or lower) deductibles, and so on. It’ll be interesting to see if the needs of such a diverse “group” can be met.My gripe with boat insurance, aside from the bloated premiums, are the controls and limitations they insist on writing into their policies. I’ve crossed oceans single-handed, have never (knock on wood) lost a boat or damaged another, and I know where it’s safe and unsafe to hang out during hurricane season. I choose not to compromise my lifestyle and freedom of choice to accommodate the greed-driven insecurities of some numbers cruncher in an office cubical in Omaha, Nebraska – and pay a lot of money for the privilege. That said, back in 1988 I found a Lloyd’s-affiliated company in London to insure my new Crealock 37, Sparrow, covering us with or without additional crew, trans-Atlantic, trans-Mediterranean, trans the entire Caribbean and US East Coast, and charged what I felt was a fair price. I was pleased to do business with them even though I never needed to make a claim. Last time I checked they had been absorbed by some other company and no longer insured boats. Pity.
Aside from that, I calculate that the money I have not paid to insurance companies over the past 30 years (including health insurance) has literally paid for Silverheels, entirely, including all of her upgrades. Thanks, State Farm!
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
So much for Siri. Toe should’ve been Tor. Apologies
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2013, at 5:56 PM, “Thatcher A. Stone” wrote:
Quote:Toe, I have always thought you are one of the luckiest people I know. Now I know that I was correct. If I had not had boat insurance, car insurance and in two cases Umbrella liability, I would have been wiped out years ago.Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2013, at 5:10 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:And may you never need any of it, Thatcher (which is, of course, what the underwriter is betting). Clearly, there is much to consider. If a 424 group policy is possible and economically attractive, it will have to accommodate each individual’s needs. Boats in the Windward Islands can’t use a policy that ends at 17°N, and Dan in Hawaii doesn’t need mid-Atlantic coverage. Some will want higher (or lower) deductibles, and so on. It’ll be interesting to see if the needs of such a diverse “group” can be met.My gripe with boat insurance, aside from the bloated premiums, are the controls and limitations they insist on writing into their policies. I’ve crossed oceans single-handed, have never (knock on wood) lost a boat or damaged another, and I know where it’s safe and unsafe to hang out during hurricane season. I choose not to compromise my lifestyle and freedom of choice to accommodate the greed-driven insecurities of some numbers cruncher in an office cubical in Omaha, Nebraska – and pay a lot of money for the privilege. That said, back in 1988 I found a Lloyd’s-affiliated company in London to insure my new Crealock 37, Sparrow, covering us with or without additional crew, trans-Atlantic, trans-Mediterranean, trans the entire Caribbean and US East Coast, and charged what I felt was a fair price. I was pleased to do business with them even though I never needed to make a claim. Last time I checked they had been absorbed by some other company and no longer insured boats. Pity.
Aside from that, I calculate that the money I have not paid to insurance companies over the past 30 years (including health insurance) has literally paid for Silverheels, entirely, including all of her upgrades. Thanks, State Farm!
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Thatcher,
I hate the ubiquitous “lol” I see everywhere online, but this time I have to say it. You got me l’ing-o-l with that one.
I’m not so much lucky as uncommonly fortunate. It’s a big difference (in my mind) and a long story that can only be told randomly, in the cockpit, under a sky full of stars with a bottle of rum for lubrication. Let me know when you’re ready. 🙂
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
aside from the bloated premiums
Any of you guys added cockpit drains on top of the two the boat comes with? Also, who’s the math guy here and can you give me a ballpark volume of these cockpits? Seems to me it would take a hell of a long time for these tubs to drain if you were pooped.
-
My boat has a second set that drain out the transom.
Pete
On 7/6/2013 4:25 PM, Page Two wrote:
aside from the bloated premiums
Any of you guys added cockpit drains on top of the two the boat comes with? Also, who’s the math guy here and can you give me a ballpark volume of these cockpits? Seems to me it would take a hell of a long time for these tubs to drain if you were pooped.
Writing a new chapter page by page in an old book._______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Thatcher, who are you insured through and in what state did you buy the
insurance?Thanks,
Pete
On 7/6/2013 1:35 PM, Thatcher A. Stone wrote:
Quote:Pleasure.Currently I have coverage from 37° North latitude to 17° South latitude east of the eastern border of Mexico and west of the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. The coverage includes hull valuation with a $500 deductible of $90,000, All third-party liability coverage up to 3 million, and corresponding pollution liability if there is a fuel spill subject to the same overall 3 million limit for liability. There is also a provision for uninsured boaters liability in the event that I am hit by a third-party or damaged by third party with no insurance. In addition the policy dovetails with an umbrella policy I carry to provide extra coverage. The basic marine policy costs me $1600 a year for basically four kinds of coverage. That’s why I am saying, the devil is in the details.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2013, at 3:19 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:And you’re right, that’s what needs to be done. Once we know there’s a
fruit salad on the table, then I hope for everyone’s sake that you’ll step
in, identify the ingredients and clarify the options. No one is better
qualified.Thanks,
Tor
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Pete did it help your premiums? It should! I think Tor makes a great point about insurance, who’s making the calls to determine the risk/cost?
-
The topic of adding more scupper volume to the cockpit was discussed a few years ago. I believe the consensus was you’d have to add some pretty large devices to drain that much water that quick. Of all the 424’s that have crossed oceans many times, none have been pooped to cause a concern.
Money and hind better sprint elsewhere. Like proper storm gear.
Alan
unabated “140”Sent from my iPhoneng
On Jul 6, 2013, at 6:42 PM, “Page Two” wrote:
Pete did it help your premiums? It should! I think Tor makes a great point about insurance, who’s making the calls to determine the risk/cost?
Writing a new chapter page by page in an old book._______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
-
Thanks Alan, I can’t seem to get the search option to help me find that discussion. I’m new to this, any advice what to search for? I tried cockpit scuppers, cockpit drains, and just cockpit. All just bring me to recent discussions.
-
That’s funny Quent!!!!!!
-
-
I am insured through AMICA Insurance of Lincoln, RI. You get back about 20% of your premium each year, a mutual company.
Thatcher A. Stone, Esq.
Attorney & Counselor at Law
45 Rockefeller Plaza
Suite 2000
New York, New York 10111
+1 646 873 7529 Fax*ACQ Magazine – 2009 Law Awards * Aviation Law Firm of the Year * North America
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Point taken.
OK, I have to get back to work. Big trial Monday 930 AM.
Apologies with Siri. That girl screws up every time I talk to her.
Thatcher A. Stone, Esq.
Attorney & Counselor at Law
45 Rockefeller Plaza
Suite 2000
New York, New York 10111
+1 646 873 7529 Fax*ACQ Magazine – 2009 Law Awards * Aviation Law Firm of the Year * North America
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
lol
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Just don’t call Siri the B word.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:41 PM, “Thatcher A. Stone, Esq.- Attorney Communication” wrote:
Quote:Point taken.OK, I have to get back to work. Big trial Monday 930 AM.
Apologies with Siri. That girl screws up every time I talk to her.
Thatcher A. Stone, Esq.
Attorney & Counselor at Law
45 Rockefeller Plaza
Suite 2000
New York, New York 10111
+1 646 873 7529 Fax*ACQ Magazine – 2009 Law Awards * Aviation Law Firm of the Year * North America
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I don’t know how others deal with boat insurance brokers. The one time I
did, in the late 80’s when I insured Sparrow, they started out with the
usual long list of you-cant’s. I explained that under those circumstance I
couldn’t do business with them, and then I presented them with every
credential I could muster, from my CG license to my foot-long professional
resume, which included a lot of sea miles doing deliveries, etc. I think the
term is baffle them with BS. Anyway, that’s what got them to ease off on the
restrictions so I could sail my boat pretty much where, when and how I
chose. Apparently those brokers had some leeway and/or influence on the
underwriters and the limitations.Good luck.
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Some years back, I watched some underwriter types sleep through a Wooden Boat Magazine class on marine surveying. That qualified them to go from cars to boats.
I think it’s one of those jobs where one aw shit wipes out a hundred atta boys .Does not exactly reward risk taking.
They would rather do the weekenders and marina queens than real off shore sailors. I’ll bet they get more claims from those guys than they ever get from people with experience.
Quent -
-
I’ve been offline for a few days, so I just now got my son-in-law’s reply to my query about group-rate boat insurance, as follows:
================
In response to your email, I can help all of you with yacht insurance. However, group rates don’t really exist. It would be interesting to find out what geographical limitations are on your friend’s policy thru his Allstate agent. Allstate is not known for writing yachts.
Mine is an independent agency. Therefore, I can go to the best and most competitive markets for your group’s boat insurance needs, not just Allstate. With that in mind, I’m open to discuss it further.
Thanks your interest,
Kenneth D. Keusch
EAC Brokerage, Inc.
171 Madison Avenue
Suite 1315
New York, NY 10016
T: 212.213.2010
F: 212.213.1044
E:================
So, all you insured 424 owners, you’re welcome to pursue this, or not. My belief is that, while there may be no standard “group rates” offered for boat insurance, if Ken were to approach his preferred underwriter for this and say, “What’s your best rate for a dozen policies at once,” then of course that underwriter is going to respond with the best possible deal for you. If coverage useful to me and the way I sail were to become available for what I consider a reasonable premium, I would probably be interested in joining in. But for now I don’t want to be The Group’s Organizer on this. Someone more qualified (Thatcher?) might choose to follow up directly with Ken Keusch as above. It may save everyone some money. Only one way to find out.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Thanks Tor, it did sound a bit out of the ordinary.
-
I’m not sure whether my message below ever got through to the group, so
here’s a repeat:I’ve been offline for a few days, so I just now got my son-in-law’s reply to
my query about group-rate boat insurance, as follows:================
In response to your email, I can help all of you with yacht insurance.
However, group rates don’t really exist. It would be interesting to find out
what geographical limitations are on your friend’s policy thru his Allstate
agent. Allstate is not known for writing yachts.Mine is an independent agency. Therefore, I can go to the best and most
competitive markets for your group’s boat insurance needs, not just
Allstate. With that in mind, I’m open to discuss it further.Thanks your interest,
Kenneth D. Keusch
EAC Brokerage, Inc.
171 Madison Avenue
Suite 1315
New York, NY 10016
T: 212.213.2010
F: 212.213.1044
E:================
So, all you insured 424 owners, you’re welcome to pursue this, or not. My
belief is that, while there may be no standard “group rates” offered for
boat insurance, if Ken were to approach his preferred underwriter for this
and say, “What’s your best rate for a dozen policies at once,” then of
course that underwriter is going to respond with the best possible deal for
you. If coverage useful to me and the way I sail were to become available
for what I consider a reasonable premium, I would probably be interested in
joining in. But for now I don’t want to be The Group’s Organizer on this.
Someone more qualified (Thatcher?) might choose to follow up directly with
Ken Keusch. It may save everyone some money. Only one way to find out.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I’m not sure whether my message below ever got through to the group, so
here’s a repeat:I’ve been offline for a few days, so I just now got my son-in-law’s reply to
my query about group-rate boat insurance, as follows:================
In response to your email, I can help all of you with yacht insurance.
However, group rates don’t really exist. It would be interesting to find out
what geographical limitations are on your friend’s policy thru his Allstate
agent. Allstate is not known for writing yachts.Mine is an independent agency. Therefore, I can go to the best and most
competitive markets for your group’s boat insurance needs, not just
Allstate. With that in mind, I’m open to discuss it further.Thanks your interest,
Kenneth D. Keusch
EAC Brokerage, Inc.
171 Madison Avenue
Suite 1315
New York, NY 10016
T: 212.213.2010
F: 212.213.1044
E:================
So, all you insured 424 owners, you’re welcome to pursue this, or not. My
belief is that, while there may be no standard “group rates” offered for
boat insurance, if Ken were to approach his preferred underwriter for this
and say, “What’s your best rate for a dozen policies at once,” then of
course that underwriter is going to respond with the best possible deal for
you. If coverage useful to me and the way I sail were to become available
for what I consider a reasonable premium, I would probably be interested in
joining in. But for now I don’t want to be The Group’s Organizer on this.
Someone more qualified (Thatcher?) might choose to follow up directly with
Ken Keusch. It may save everyone some money. Only one way to find out.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
-
It did.
Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Jul 13, 2013 12:20 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:I’m not sure whether my message below ever got through to the group, so
here’s a repeat:I’ve been offline for a few days, so I just now got my son-in-law’s reply
to
my query about group-rate boat insurance, as follows:================
In response to your email, I can help all of you with yacht insurance.
However, group rates don’t really exist. It would be interesting to find
out
what geographical limitations are on your friend’s policy thru his Allstate
agent. Allstate is not known for writing yachts.Mine is an independent agency. Therefore, I can go to the best and most
competitive markets for your group’s boat insurance needs, not just
Allstate. With that in mind, I’m open to discuss it further.Thanks your interest,
Kenneth D. Keusch
EAC Brokerage, Inc.
171 Madison Avenue
Suite 1315
New York, NY 10016
T: 212.213.2010
F: 212.213.1044
E:================
So, all you insured 424 owners, you’re welcome to pursue this, or not. My
belief is that, while there may be no standard “group rates” offered for
boat insurance, if Ken were to approach his preferred underwriter for this
and say, “What’s your best rate for a dozen policies at once,” then of
course that underwriter is going to respond with the best possible deal for
you. If coverage useful to me and the way I sail were to become available
for what I consider a reasonable premium, I would probably be interested in
joining in. But for now I don’t want to be The Group’s Organizer on this.
Someone more qualified (Thatcher?) might choose to follow up directly with
Ken Keusch. It may save everyone some money. Only one way to find out.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I hate to resurrect this dead horse but all those nice things I said about Seaworthy Insurance will now have to be re-evaluated. I just got my renewal and with great care NOT to file any claims last year, they went up on my premium by 22%. When I asked them why, since I was obviously experienced enough and capable enough to sail several thousand miles and have no wrecks or claims (they should in fact reduce my premium), they replied that it was because of Hurricane Sandy. Then I started my Geography lesson about where the Gulf of Mexico is and where New Jersey is. It seems they didn’t care, and went on explaining how they were going to spread the expense to all customers, because….Hurricanes happen, and we all have to bear the expense. I tried to remind them that when I moved the boat from the Great Lakes to the Gulf of Mexico, they charged me an up-lift premium, then, because Hurricanes happen..down there. I agreed and paid the up-lifted charge. But then this Hurricane comes along, and its not even mine, it is a NEW JERSEY hurricane, and they want to charge me a premium. Another premium. I reminded them that they already did that when I went to Hurricane Alley, now they were double dipping. To no avail. If I want the insurance I will pay the premium. I will probably do that, but right now I just need to *itch.
thanks for listening. Charlie
-
Charley (most of this is a repeat of my post on this issue several months
back),
I went through the same thing with IMIS (Markel) back in the spring. I
have a lot of respect for Al Golden, who owns IMIS, and I believe he is a
straight-up guy. Also, a major portion of his business is with cruisers
rather than weekend sailors that make of the bulk of the customers of most
other underwriters. Still they wanted to charge me $500 because I won’t
move my boat 40nm north of JAX to the state line. I pointed out to IMIS
that Kent Island, MD (where their office is located) has a higher incidence
of Hurricanes than JAX, but they said it was because of the higher
concentration of boats in Florida. I then pointed out that looking out any
window of the IMIS office they are probably seeing more boats than are
located in the entire JAX area (this is not a major boating area such as
south of here). They said the price is what it is.
I could have taken the chance on no storms here (looks good now), but I
woosed out paid the hurricane premium (with an increase in the
deductible). I almost hope we get nailed to allow me to make a claim and
justify the premium.
That said, I do believe that Tropical Storms wreck havoc with the
insurance companies’ bottom lines. I remember being in Al Golden’s office
back in 2007 (for an SSCA meeting) when he disclosed that Markel had a 47%
claim on their policies that year (no big one for storms). I also have a
couple of friends who worked in the BoatUS claims department. They told me
in 2004 BoatUS lost all of the profit they had made since entering the
insurance business due to the 4 storms (or was it 5?) that hit Florida that
year.
Whatever you think of the ethics and practices of the insurance business,
they are just offering a means to bet on the future. If you feel lucky,
you don’t need them. If you take their bet you are playing with the house
odds. They aren’t in this business to lose money.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 4:59 PM, cstewart wrote:
I hate to resurrect this dead horse but all those nice things I said about
Seaworthy Insurance will now have to be re-evaluated. I just got my
renewal and with great care NOT to file any claims last year, they went up
on my premium by 22%. When I asked them why, since I was obviously
experienced enough and capable enough to sail several thousand miles and
have no wrecks or claims (they should in fact reduce my premium), they
replied that it was because of Hurricane Sandy. Then I started my
Geography lesson about where the Gulf of Mexico is and where New Jersey is.
It seems they didn’t care, and went on explaining how they were going to
spread the expense to all customers, because….Hurricanes happen, and we
all have to bear the expense. I tried to remind them that when I moved the
boat from the Great Lakes to the Gulf of Mexico, they charged me an up-lift
premium, then, because Hurricanes happen..down there. I agreed and paid
the up-lifted charge. But then this Hurricane comes along, and its not
even mine, it is a NEW JERSEY hurricane, and they want to charge me a
premium. Another premium. I reminded them that they already did that when
I went to Hurricane Alley, now they were double dipping. To no avail. If
I want the insurance I will pay the premium. I will probably do that, but
right now I just need to *itch.thanks for listening. Charlie
"People cannot discover new lands until they have the courage to lose
sight of the shore."
Andre Gide 1869-1951_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
It’s collectively our own fault. What do folks do when there is a hurricane warning? Do they come down and check their boats? Do they take their sails off and double their pennants? Do they help others do the same? No, they read their insurance policies and verify their coverage! A few of us are responsible mariners but how does the insurance company sort us out?
Rich
BlackSheep #47
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Really good point Rich.
-
There is actually a good deal you can do for your boat and yourself when a
hurricane is approaching. I recently came across a pretty good article on it
at http://www.dhlyman.com/DHLyman.com/Hurricane_Preparation.html .If I wanted to press an insurance company or agent for less expensive
coverage, I’d present them with this article (to verify that I actually know
what to do, which they most likely do not), assure them I will do everything
it recommends, and ask them to adjust my premium accordingly since I am
obviously at a much lower risk for losing my boat to a storm. If one company
or broker won’t respond to this, I’d present it to others until someone
does.Yes, I’m just an uninsured vagabond dreamer & all, but if I were on the
other side of the negotiation, i.e., that agent or underwriter, I’d be
impressed.Just a thought from the other side.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Tor & Rich,
What your recommend is exactly what all of us should do to mitigate the
possible damage from storm. Unfortunately I don’t think that will have any
effect on the premium an insurance company will demand for coverage. They
will take the money they might save on possible damage to your properly
prepared boat and use that to help them cover the damage to the boats owned
by Bozos. The reason to take the actions identified in your posts is to
minimize the damage to your boat. I do not believe those actions will
impress the insurance industry enough to grant you a premium discount. A
history of no claims over a decade or more (regardless of how well or
poorly you prepare for storms) is probably of more value in dealing with
the insurance industry.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:There is actually a good deal you can do for your boat and yourself when a
hurricane is approaching. I recently came across a pretty good article on
it
at http://www.dhlyman.com/DHLyman.com/Hurricane_Preparation.html .If I wanted to press an insurance company or agent for less expensive
coverage, I’d present them with this article (to verify that I actually
know
what to do, which they most likely do not), assure them I will do
everything
it recommends, and ask them to adjust my premium accordingly since I am
obviously at a much lower risk for losing my boat to a storm. If one
company
or broker won’t respond to this, I’d present it to others until someone
does.Yes, I’m just an uninsured vagabond dreamer & all, but if I were on the
other side of the negotiation, i.e., that agent or underwriter, I’d be
impressed.Just a thought from the other side.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
A perfectly valid opinion, John, and you may well be right. Still, “if it
were me,” I’d give it a shot. Actually, when it was me, I did. The one time
I bought boat insurance I buried the agency in resumes, credentials,
magazine articles and a squeaky clean record until they must’ve thought I
was Robin Knox Johnson incognito. As a result I not only got a rock-bottom
rate, but also single-hander coverage for the US East Coast, the Caribbean,
the Atlantic (US to Europe), and the Mediterranean. I won’t tell you what I
paid – it would break your heart – but it was quite reasonable. Of course,
they still made their money on me since I never made a claim in the 6 years
they insured me.All this is to say, in the words of Henry Ford, “Whether you think you can
or you can’t, you’re right.”🙂
Silverheels, P-424 #17
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
The problem is, you can be the most prudent, seaworthy and nautical looking sailor out there. Doing everything according to Chapmans, Duttons and Goodlander…. It’s the other guy and his boat that you have worry about.
And just a word about premiums, just like medical insurance, if everyone had to pay out of pocket (large deductible plans) instead if a 20$ co-pay, the insurance business would be far different. People would ask more questions and make better decisions instead of just plunking down their 20 bucks and never asking the cost. Would you have your boat worked on like that or your car?
Sorry just a rant.
AlanSent from my iPhone
On Aug 2, 2013, at 5:59 AM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:A perfectly valid opinion, John, and you may well be right. Still, “if it
were me,” I’d give it a shot. Actually, when it was me, I did. The one time
I bought boat insurance I buried the agency in resumes, credentials,
magazine articles and a squeaky clean record until they must’ve thought I
was Robin Knox Johnson incognito. As a result I not only got a rock-bottom
rate, but also single-hander coverage for the US East Coast, the Caribbean,
the Atlantic (US to Europe), and the Mediterranean. I won’t tell you what I
paid – it would break your heart – but it was quite reasonable. Of course,
they still made their money on me since I never made a claim in the 6 years
they insured me.All this is to say, in the words of Henry Ford, “Whether you think you can
or you can’t, you’re right.”🙂
Silverheels, P-424 #17
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.