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Rick,
That sounds like a smart place for your generator. My boat came to me with a large propane tank locker (capped with a table top) already built in between the mizzen mast and the pedestal, so that space is taken here. I don’t see a problem running the genset in on the starboard aft corner (non-opening) seat in the cockpit. I re-plumbed my cockpit drains to above-waterline thru-hulls a couple of years ago (and sealed up the old ones below the waterline) so there’s no problem with heavier-than-air gasses draining out of the cockpit and overboard while in port. Have made space in the port cockpit locker for storing the unit.
FYI, Mayberry and a few other vendors are all quoting in the $869-875 range for the EU2000i, including shipping.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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The Honda is a great generator but will not meet marine or ABYC standards so watch out. Heres a link on Carbon Monoxide:[/url]http://www.uscgboating.org/command/co.htm
Know where and how CO may accumulate in and around your boat.
Maintain fresh air circulation throughout the boat at all times. Run exhaust blowers whenever the generator is operating.
Know where your engine and generator exhaust outlets are located and keep everyone away from these areas.
Never sit, teak surf, or hang on the back deck or swim platform while the engines are running. Teak surfing is NEVER a safe activity.
Never enter areas under swim platforms where exhaust outlets are located unless the area has been properly ventilated.
Although CO can be present without the smell of exhaust fumes, if you smell exhaust fumes, CO is also present. Take immediate action to dissipate these fumes.
Treat symptoms of seasickness as possible CO poisoning. Get the person into fresh air immediately. Seek medical attention-unless you’re sure it’s not CO.
Install and maintain CO alarms inside your boat. Do not ignore any alarm. Replace alarms as recommended by the alarm manufacturer.
Follow the checklists provided on this website. -
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Quent,
Thanks, those are good pointers. I got rid of that whole bilge vent system on my boat – all those fat ducts and the little scoops on the aft bridge deck – so I’m not likely to repeat your situation, at least not in the same way. Still, I’ll pay attention to where the generator exhaust is going once I’ve got the thing and have a chance to try it out.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Don,
If I lived my life that cautiously, if I dared not do anything that isn’t ABYC Standards, I’d never have gone sailing in the first place. I’m sure whoever wrote that meant well, but, well, we each live our lives our own way, I guess. So far, so good.
Anyway, thanks for pointing it out.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Really Tor? You got rid of the bilge vent system? What prompted that? I mean, other than one almost never uses it? Wouldn't you have to have it to sell the boat? How about if you had a propane leak? Wouldn't you want to vent it out (although, now that I think of it, using a crappy old 12v blower is probably not the smartest way to rid the bilge of explosive fumes)?
I'm just curious – I've never heard of anyone doing that, although I can't really see any good reason to keep it.
Bob
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Quent,
Thanks, those are good pointers. I got rid of that whole bilge vent system on my boat – all those fat ducts and the little scoops on the aft bridge deck – so I'm not likely to repeat your situation, at least not in the same way. Still, I'll pay attention to where the generator exhaust is going once I've got the thing and have a chance to try it out.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Scott,
Here are the only photos I seem to have that show the propane locker box at all. Obviously, they were taken and labeled to show off my one-of-a-kind bimini top (of which I am admittedly way too proud). I’ll take some better photos of the propane locker for you soon.
I noticed some small generators can run on propane, but I haven’t looked into it. I’m carrying gasoline anyway for the dinghy’s outboard motor, and I believe it’s generally easier to refill a gas can than a propane tank. Still, I’d be curious to know what the propane fuel consumption rate is. Do you know?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Otoh since the Honda is not ‘installed’ does abyc even apply? Don’t sell the genny with the boat
On Jun 22, 2009, at 11:09 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Really Tor? You got rid of the bilge vent system? What prompted that? I mean, other than one almost never uses it? Wouldn’t you have to have it to sell the boat? How about if you had a propane leak? Wouldn’t you want to vent it out (although, now that I think of it, using a crappy old 12v blower is probably not the smartest way to rid the bilge of explosive fumes)?I’m just curious – I’ve never heard of anyone doing that, although I can’t really see any good reason to keep it.
Bob
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Silver Heels <()> wrote:
Quote:Quent,Thanks, those are good pointers. I got rid of that whole bilge vent system on my boat – all those fat ducts and the little scoops on the aft bridge deck – so I’m not likely to repeat your situation, at least not in the same way. Still, I’ll pay attention to where the generator exhaust is going once I’ve got the thing and have a chance to try it out.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor,
Thanks for the Pics. It looks like it could work well.
Any thing that you would change on the set up if you were stating from scratch?As for the fuel consumtion rate for propane vs. gas, I’m not sure.
I haven’t found any info on the generator consumtion rate differance, yet.
However in automobile conversions the mileage is reproted as just about the same.
I’m still very much in the research phase of this idea. The parts of the conversion that apeal to me are the larger capacity of the propane tank, the safer storage of fuel, the reported increase in engine life, the lower emisions from propane, and the ability to use LPG,CNG,or GAS.Scott
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Scott,
Photos attached. This was done by a PO. Fortunately, he left the original pair of small propane tanks in that aft port cockpit locker. When I run the big (20 lb.) tank empty, I can instantly switch over to one of the two “spares” back there. For the kind of cruising I have in mind, 3 tanks and a 30 lb propane capacity is a good thing. One of these days I’ll even resurface that tabletop to make it look nice.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Scott,
Can’t think of anything I’d change about that propane tank installation. It’s simple and practical and it works. Of course, that central locker has a drain hose that connects to the original propane locker’s overboard drain.
It seems like a good idea to at least have the option of using propane to power a generator. That link Pat sent us, http://www.instructables.com/id/Converting_a_generator_to_run_on_propane , illustrates what appears to be a simple way to do this. I’ll probably do something similar once I’ve got the generator.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor,
I’ve seen that diy mod as well. There is also an adapter plate that can be bought which mounts under the carb to let you use gas,lpg, and or cng with out modifiing the carb http://www.propane-generators.com/adapter_installation.htm
I have also seen a site that has this mod as a diy.And thanks for the additional pics.
Scott -
Bob,
I’d like to order a Honda EU2000i, but since I mostly need it for charging batteries I want to be sure it’ll power my Xantrex TrueCharge 20-amp battery charger. Thing is, I’m confused about AC vs. DC amperage ratings and what I can expect from the EU2000i in this regard. How can that generator, rated at 16.7 amps maximum output, power a 20-amp battery charger, let alone (as you wrote) “put out 60+ amps DC loading the generator to about 12 amps?” Can you explain this apparent anomaly to an electrically challenged neophyte?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi Tor,
Very simply, a 20 amp charger is rated at 20 amps AC, and at 12vdc with an assumed 100% conversion, that translates to 10 times the current or theoretically 200 amps. In reality you don't have batteries that can take that kind of power. So, the generator will definitely power your charger. If you really run your batteries down to nothing, the generator will labor to do the job, but not to the point it'll die. I've run my house bank down to 50% (three 4D AGM's) in 4 days at anchor and the Honda ran them back to 100% in 1-1/2 to 2 hours.
Two formulae to remember: P=IE and E=IR
(Power in watts = I (current in amps) x E (volts) and Volts = Current x Resistance in Ohms. Taking this further, substituting the E with I x R, you get P = I^2 R (Eye Squared R). What does that mean to you? Well cable sizing is based on I^2R losses. Anyway, probably more than you wanted to know and more than you need to know.
Bob
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Bob,
I'd like to order a Honda EU2000i, but since I mostly need it for charging batteries I want to be sure it'll power my Xantrex TrueCharge 20-amp battery charger. Thing is, I'm confused about AC vs. DC amperage ratings and what I can expect from the EU2000i in this regard. How can that generator, rated at 16.7 amps maximum output, power a 20-amp battery charger, let alone (as you wrote) “put out 60+ amps DC loading the generator to about 12 amps?” Can you explain this apparent anomaly to an electrically challenged neophyte?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Thanks for the mini-lesson, Bob. Perhaps it’s like Bob Marley sang: “Every little thing gonna’ be all right.”
Still, I find it odd that the Owner’s Manual specs for this Xantrex Truecharge 20, which came with my boat, say:
Output Current : 20 amps continuous duty
Output Voltage, Charge: 13.8 – 14.8V DC (depending on setting)
Output Voltage, Float : 13.1 – 14.2V DC (depending on setting)
Input Voltage : (115VAC) 90-135VAC 48-62Hz
Efficiency : 85%Doesn’t that appear to be saying this charger’s output is 20 amps at 13.8 to 14.8V DC (depending on setting)? In other words, is it possible my 20 amp charger is not rated at 20 amps AC as yours seems to be, but at 20 amps DC? And if it is outputting 20 amps DC, then it seems a bit hopeful that a 16.7 amps maximum output from the Honda generator will be sufficient to power it.
The one glimmer of hope is that the Honda’s output seems to be 16.7 amps AC, and from what you say that is equal to around 167 amps DC. If that’s the case, then it should be able to easily power half a dozen battery chargers like mine.
Yes, no, maybe?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi Tor,
You are correct – even if your charger can do 20 amps DC, in AC terms, it's like 2.5 amps (inefficiencies in all the stuff), but I'm sure the charger will output a great deal more for short periods of time. In any case, though, the generator will suffice to power it.
All my AC goes through my charger/inverter – it's rated, oddly, at 20 amps continuous, not 30 as you'd expect. But I've never popped the breaker before the generator's breaker pops….
Bob
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Thanks for the mini-lesson, Bob. Perhaps it's like Bob Marley sang: “Every little thing gonna' be all right.”
Still, I find it odd that the Owner's Manual specs for this Xantrex Truecharge 20, which came with my boat, say:
Output Current : 20 amps continuous duty
Output Voltage, Charge: 13.8 – 14.8V DC (depending on setting)
Output Voltage, Float : 13.1 – 14.2V DC (depending on setting)
Input Voltage : (115VAC) 90-135VAC 48-62Hz
Efficiency : 85%Doesn't that appear to be saying this charger's output is 20 amps at 13.8 to 14.8V DC (depending on setting)? In other words, is it possible my 20 amp charger is not rated at 20 amps AC as yours seems to be, but at 20 amps DC? And if it is outputting 20 amps DC, then it seems a bit hopeful that a 16.7 amps maximum output from the Honda generator will be sufficient to power it.
The one glimmer of hope is that the Honda's output seems to be 16.7 amps AC, and from what you say that is equal to around 167 amps DC. If that's the case, then it should be able to easily power half a dozen battery chargers like mine.
Yes, no, maybe?Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor,
I have the same charger, except mine is the 40A model. The rating is indeed for the DC output of the charger not the AC input. I have the Xantrex remote panel so I can monitor the output of the charger. I have never seen the 40A output on the panel display. Granted it is a simple LED display for 40, 20, 10, 5, .. amps, so accuracy is not to be expected. Generally I see the 20A LED on when charging a depleted battery. It drops down to 10A after about an hour, then slowly drops to whatever the service load is after that. So, my guess is your 20A charger may put out 20A initially for a minute or so, but drops to 15A or less for the remainder of the charging cycle. It would be interesting to know what Xantrex says about this, but we all know contacting Xantrex technical support is the definitiion of futility.So I think you'll have a lot of unused capacity if you use the Honda to only run your charger.
John
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi Tor,You are correct – even if your charger can do 20 amps DC, in AC terms, it's like 2.5 amps (inefficiencies in all the stuff), but I'm sure the charger will output a great deal more for short periods of time. In any case, though, the generator will suffice to power it.
All my AC goes through my charger/inverter – it's rated, oddly, at 20 amps continuous, not 30 as you'd expect. But I've never popped the breaker before the generator's breaker pops….
Bob
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Thanks for the mini-lesson, Bob. Perhaps it's like Bob Marley sang: “Every little thing gonna' be all right.”
Still, I find it odd that the Owner's Manual specs for this Xantrex Truecharge 20, which came with my boat, say:
Output Current : 20 amps continuous duty
Output Voltage, Charge: 13.8 – 14.8V DC (depending on setting)
Output Voltage, Float : 13.1 – 14.2V DC (depending on setting)
Input Voltage : (115VAC) 90-135VAC 48-62Hz
Efficiency : 85%Doesn't that appear to be saying this charger's output is 20 amps at 13.8 to 14.8V DC (depending on setting)? In other words, is it possible my 20 amp charger is not rated at 20 amps AC as yours seems to be, but at 20 amps DC? And if it is outputting 20 amps DC, then it seems a bit hopeful that a 16.7 amps maximum output from the Honda generator will be sufficient to power it.
The one glimmer of hope is that the Honda's output seems to be 16.7 amps AC, and from what you say that is equal to around 167 amps DC. If that's the case, then it should be able to easily power half a dozen battery chargers like mine.
Yes, no, maybe?Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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I use my Honda with a Heart 20A Charger/Inverter.
When the batteries have been 25% depleted (600amp house bank) the generator ramps up pretty good and doesn't seem to have any problem handling the load…
I have a 16,500 BTU Mermaid Marine A/C I installed on Eclipse.. For fun and giggles I've run it with the Honda for short periods of time just to see if I could… ran w/o incident.Rick
EclipseOn Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:38 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Tor,
I have the same charger, except mine is the 40A model. The rating is indeed for the DC output of the charger not the AC input. I have the Xantrex remote panel so I can monitor the output of the charger. I have never seen the 40A output on the panel display. Granted it is a simple LED display for 40, 20, 10, 5, .. amps, so accuracy is not to be expected. Generally I see the 20A LED on when charging a depleted battery. It drops down to 10A after about an hour, then slowly drops to whatever the service load is after that. So, my guess is your 20A charger may put out 20A initially for a minute or so, but drops to 15A or less for the remainder of the charging cycle. It would be interesting to know what Xantrex says about this, but we all know contacting Xantrex technical support is the definitiion of futility.So I think you'll have a lot of unused capacity if you use the Honda to only run your charger.
John
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi Tor,You are correct – even if your charger can do 20 amps DC, in AC terms, it's like 2.5 amps (inefficiencies in all the stuff), but I'm sure the charger will output a great deal more for short periods of time. In any case, though, the generator will suffice to power it.
All my AC goes through my charger/inverter – it's rated, oddly, at 20 amps continuous, not 30 as you'd expect. But I've never popped the breaker before the generator's breaker pops….
Bob
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Thanks for the mini-lesson, Bob. Perhaps it's like Bob Marley sang: “Every little thing gonna' be all right.”
Still, I find it odd that the Owner's Manual specs for this Xantrex Truecharge 20, which came with my boat, say:
Output Current : 20 amps continuous duty
Output Voltage, Charge: 13.8 – 14.8V DC (depending on setting)
Output Voltage, Float : 13.1 – 14.2V DC (depending on setting)
Input Voltage : (115VAC) 90-135VAC 48-62Hz
Efficiency : 85%Doesn't that appear to be saying this charger's output is 20 amps at 13.8 to 14.8V DC (depending on setting)? In other words, is it possible my 20 amp charger is not rated at 20 amps AC as yours seems to be, but at 20 amps DC? And if it is outputting 20 amps DC, then it seems a bit hopeful that a 16.7 amps maximum output from the Honda generator will be sufficient to power it.
The one glimmer of hope is that the Honda's output seems to be 16.7 amps AC, and from what you say that is equal to around 167 amps DC. If that's the case, then it should be able to easily power half a dozen battery chargers like mine.
Yes, no, maybe?Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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All right, thanks to you all for your feedback. I’m convinced the Honda will meet my needs. It’ll also give me some pleasant options, such as running an air conditioner (none installed, but I’ve used a window unit on the coachhouse in the past), or a hookah diving rig (THAT’s what I want for Christmas!), or even my greediest power tools… I think I’m going to enjoy this thing.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi Tor,
If you aren't totally enamored of the thing, I'll be very surprised. You can even run your water heater (although that's all you'll run) on it. It takes 1/2hr to 45 min to do the job.
Bob
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:All right, thanks to you all for your feedback. I'm convinced the Honda will meet my needs. It'll also give me some pleasant options, such as running an air conditioner (none installed, but I've used a window unit on the coachhouse in the past), or a hookah diving rig (THAT's what I want for Christmas!), or even my greediest power tools… I think I'm going to enjoy this thing.Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor-
I agree wih Bob, you will probably like the Honda. However, depending on the unit, you might have a bit of trouble running an air conditioner. A/C starting loads are 2-3 times higher than running loads and this might tax the limits of the 2000 series Honda.
What I like most about the Honda is that under light loads, like the last stages of battery charging, the Honda actually throttles back, saving fuel and running quieter. An old style constant speed AC genset can’t do that.
Quent -
Quent,
Someone in this group wrote the following, which I copied and saved with my generator notes: “For air conditioning get a hard-start capacitor for $45 to relieve the high amp start up issue. A 10,000 BTU unit should use 9 amps, OK for a 1500-2000W generator.”
In the brutal summertime heat of Green Cove Springs, FL, 30 miles south of Jacksonville on the St. John’s River, with days and even weeks at a time over 100°F., I got by (albeit just barely and combined with a full deck awning!) with a little Home Depot air conditioner mounted on the coachhouse at the hatch just aft of the main mast. That’s probably as far as I’d go regarding air if I were to do it again. I think that unit was only 5,000 BTU’s. As it is, I’m headed for the Caribbean soon. I lived aboard down there for about 8 years in the past and don’t recall ever wishing I had air conditioning.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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I stepped out and got a Victron Inverter for the simple fact that it was the only unit that I found that would shift from charging to inverter when the generator is overloaded. I have yet to see this happen because my air conditioner is small but I will have to turn on a hair dryer and microwave at the same time and see what happens.
Linus
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