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I need to install a system as my new sail does not have the Dutchman buttons installed ( Dave, my sailmaker, was adamant about not putting more holes in “his” sail).
Any one have a layout they are happy with?Eric Lorentzon
EFI Sales Development Manager
412.352.1941
Sent from my iPhone
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I have always had strong feelings against lazy jacks. Although convenient
when into the wind, they don’t allow setting or dousing sails off the wind.
A favorite trick of mine is to lower the main behind the jib, in other
words, let the main out far enough to back wind and then drop it. Big no-no
with lazy jacks.They create wear on the sail, they’re only useful when the sail is down,
they are a constant source of irritation (to me) when dealing with the main
halyard, more things to wear out. I’m sure given enough time I could come
up with more.But for every reason I don’t like lazy jacks there is someone on the list
absolutely loves them.Bob
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 4:05 PM, S V Navasana wrote:
I need to install a system as my new sail does not have the Dutchman
buttons installed ( Dave, my sailmaker, was adamant about not putting more
holes in “his” sail).
Any one have a layout they are happy with?Eric Lorentzon
EFI Sales Development Manager
412.352.1941
Sent from my iPhone
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—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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I like the Doyle Stackpack a lot. You can pull the lines forward to the
mast so they don’t wear on the sail and no more holes in the sail. Plus
you get a great sail cover in the deal.On 8/15/2011 2:05 PM, S V Navasana wrote:
I need to install a system as my new sail does not have the Dutchman buttons installed ( Dave, my sailmaker, was adamant about not putting more holes in “his” sail).
Any one have a layout they are happy with?Eric Lorentzon
EFI Sales Development Manager
412.352.1941
Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttp://server12.websitehostserver.net/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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Any lazy jack system should definitely be retractable. There are many
drawings on the web which should help in designing.-p
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 15, 2011, at 4:09 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
I like the Doyle Stackpack a lot. You can pull the lines forward to the mast so they don’t wear on the sail and no more holes in the sail. Plus you get a great sail cover in the deal.
On 8/15/2011 2:05 PM, S V Navasana wrote:
I need to install a system as my new sail does not have the Dutchman buttons installed ( Dave, my sailmaker, was adamant about not putting more holes in “his” sail).
Any one have a layout they are happy with?Eric Lorentzon
EFI Sales Development Manager
412.352.1941
Sent from my iPhone
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Hi Eric and Bob,
I installed EZ-JAX http://www.ezjax.com/ on both main ($185) and mizzen
($135) in 1997and have been happy with the system. The only maintenance has
been to replace, a couple of times, the shock cord that holds them when
stowed. Seems to me that they solve most of the things Bob objects to.
Regards,
Phil
Aurora
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Eric,
I’ve had lazy jacks on all my cruising sailboats since the ’70’s.
Wouldn’t sail without ’em. Cheap, simple to make, quick to retract and
necessary for keeping the mainsail under control when dousing it, which,
of course, stack-packs also do. On the downside, lazy jacks create some
extra windage when it’s blowing hard, and can snag on battens when
raising the mainsail on a broad reach, but as I said they’re quick to
retract to the mast if they’re in the way – as when setting a boom
awning.Contrary to some claims otherwise (Bob), lazy jacks do not prevent
dropping the main off the wind. I do it whenever it suits me. You just
need to tug at the sail’s leech and it’ll drop right down into the
loving arms of the lazy jack lines. In fact, that’s when you want lazy
jacks most, to contain the sail and keep it from flogging out over the
decks. They do not create wear on the sail and a set will last for years
if not decades.Attached is the plan I drew up for Silverheels’ lazy jacks. I don’t have
a good photo of those lines, but you can just make them out in the
attached snapshot.I’m not near the boat right now to check, but I think I used 3/8″ line.
The upper ends of the main (hypotenuse) lines pass through small padeyes
(blocks really aren’t necessary) under the spreaders, a foot outboard of
the mast sides to prevent slatting and give the sail a little more room,
and then run down to small cleats seized to the shrounds. Leave enough
extra line so you can lower the lazy jacks from those shroud cleats.
Also, do not make the aftermost vertical loop continuous under the boom
as are the others). Instead, make that last verticle loop two separate
halves, which tie together beneath the boom to form the loop. This way
you can untie them and slide the entire assembly forward to the mast
(without lowering it), i.e., quick to retract.Have fun,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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I think, Tor, that your solution of placing the hypotenuse out on the
spreader is the biggest innovation for these things. The only problem I can
see with that is that heavily or shock loading the lazy jacks can pull the
spreader down and out of its proper alignment. You can do that with flag
halyards as well. The spreaders should NOT be level, but should bisect the
angle between the lower part of the shroud and the upper part. Usually they
end up level because it ‘looks better’ but the stress of the shrouds is not
directly centered on the spreader but offset. Will this cause a rig
failure? Clearly not, but in a situation where the mast might pump it could
work the spreader down and release the shroud.Other than that, I’ve found the sails to be small enough to easily handled
even off wind. They might not end up prettily flaked but there’s always
time for that in port.Bob
2011/8/16 Silverheels
Quote:Eric,I’ve had lazy jacks on all my cruising sailboats since the ’70’s.
Wouldn’t sail without ’em. Cheap, simple to make, quick to retract and
necessary for keeping the mainsail under control when dousing it, which,
of course, stack-packs also do. On the downside, lazy jacks create some
extra windage when it’s blowing hard, and can snag on battens when
raising the mainsail on a broad reach, but as I said they’re quick to
retract to the mast if they’re in the way – as when setting a boom
awning.Contrary to some claims otherwise (Bob), lazy jacks do not prevent
dropping the main off the wind. I do it whenever it suits me. You just
need to tug at the sail’s leech and it’ll drop right down into the
loving arms of the lazy jack lines. In fact, that’s when you want lazy
jacks most, to contain the sail and keep it from flogging out over the
decks. They do not create wear on the sail and a set will last for years
if not decades.Attached is the plan I drew up for Silverheels’ lazy jacks. I don’t have
a good photo of those lines, but you can just make them out in the
attached snapshot.I’m not near the boat right now to check, but I think I used 3/8″ line.
The upper ends of the main (hypotenuse) lines pass through small padeyes
(blocks really aren’t necessary) under the spreaders, a foot outboard of
the mast sides to prevent slatting and give the sail a little more room,
and then run down to small cleats seized to the shrounds. Leave enough
extra line so you can lower the lazy jacks from those shroud cleats.
Also, do not make the aftermost vertical loop continuous under the boom
as are the others). Instead, make that last verticle loop two separate
halves, which tie together beneath the boom to form the loop. This way
you can untie them and slide the entire assembly forward to the mast
(without lowering it), i.e., quick to retract.Have fun,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hey Bob,
I didn’t mean you had to use lazy jacks. What works for you is right for
you. My point to Eric was that if he wants a mainsail containment
system, he could keep it inexpensive and simple by using lazy jacks.
Now, I suppose if someone climbed up on them and did gymnastics for a
while they could pull the spreaders down. Or the rig could be struck by
a meteor. I guess I’ve been lucky. That hasn’t happened to me in the 35
years I’ve been using them.And you’re absolutely right about the correct spreader angle. I’d say
maybe 25% of the boats I see get it right.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hey, Tor!
I understand that. I suppose I get a little argumentative. My bad. If
sailing teaches us anything at all it’s that those of us that survive to
sail another day find our own ways of doing things. Lazy jacks or no,
whatever works.I had forgotten about yours mounted to the spreaders. I remember thinking
then (and still do) that it was the thing that made lazy jacks really
workable. If I weren’t lazy Bob, I’d probably try lazy jacks.Bob
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Hey Bob,I didn’t mean you had to use lazy jacks. What works for you is right for
you. My point to Eric was that if he wants a mainsail containment
system, he could keep it inexpensive and simple by using lazy jacks.
Now, I suppose if someone climbed up on them and did gymnastics for a
while they could pull the spreaders down. Or the rig could be struck by
a meteor. I guess I’ve been lucky. That hasn’t happened to me in the 35
years I’ve been using them.And you’re absolutely right about the correct spreader angle. I’d say
maybe 25% of the boats I see get it right.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Argumentative is the nature of Captains, amigo. Anyway, I sort of threw
the first jab. My bad.I think they’re called “lazy jacks” because they suit a lazy sailor, a
“lazy Jack,” by making the job of handing sails easier. I got used to
them on my early gaff-riggers and carried the idea from boat to boat
ever since. An added bonus is that lazy jacks confuse landlubbers by
adding a bunch more lines to the rig, making it appear even more
complicated.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Thanks all for the input.
Tor I am doing a hybrid of your system. Will see if it works….
By the way – on the spreader tips I am testing a system I designed that play two roles – keeps the spreaders fixed at the proper angle and reduces chafe on any headsail that my come in contact with the spreaders.
May be looking for a couple beta testers.Eric Lorentzon
EFI Sales Development Manager
412.352.1941
Sent from my iPhoneOn Aug 18, 2011, at 9:36 AM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:Argumentative is the nature of Captains, amigo. Anyway, I sort of threw
the first jab. My bad.I think they’re called “lazy jacks” because they suit a lazy sailor, a
“lazy Jack,” by making the job of handing sails easier. I got used to
them on my early gaff-riggers and carried the idea from boat to boat
ever since. An added bonus is that lazy jacks confuse landlubbers by
adding a bunch more lines to the rig, making it appear even more
complicated.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Eric,
There are any number of lazy jacks designs, all of which do pretty much
the same thing. No doubt there are articles galore on the subject in the
various sailng magazine archives online. Just be sure yours are easily
retractable to clear the way for a deck awning, etc.Have fun. I’m heading back into the forests of north-central Idaho again
aboard my VW campervan, “SilverWheels.”Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Just yesterday I installed LJs using small 1/8 dacron cord as 3 verticals threaded about 12 inches into the hollow of 7/64 amsteel. wrapped approx 10 inches from mast on the spreaders and then back towards the forward bail. Looks great and today I will raise and lower to test with no wind dockside. Will tweak some under sail, this is a simple low cost system with no blocks and very little chaff oppurtunity. Later after it all settles in will remove the knots from the verticals and let the “chinese finger” effect hold the cord in the amsteel. The fellow helping me has this on his main and removed his topping lift, I’m not ready for that but it is a possibility. Our life aboard will be MUCH easier and the main will get much more use. Up next the mizzen LJs.
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https://picasaweb.google.com/105734688941948806936/LazyJacks
try the link above. Will be trimming and seizing to get a finnished product.
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Herb
Thanks
Linus
On a good day I can see the other side of the river!
On Sep 4, 2011, at 1:02 PM, “Herbc” wrote:
https://picasaweb.google.com/105734688941948806936/LazyJacks
try the link above. Will be trimming and seizing to get a finnished product.
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with the main up and pulled in hard, per my friends advice, I retied the verticals to lightly touch the leeward side of the main with no pressure to affect sail shape. Seems to work great and even lowered on a dead downwind the other day. Now I have to trim the excess cord and take the amsteel off the forward bail or maybe just cut in the middle and secure to the forward bail up near the bolt running thru the boom. Something like that.
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