Hot W58

[typhoontye]

Hello all,

I have the original W58 installed in my boat, and it runs a bit warm here in Florida during the Summer. By warm, I mean it overheats to 220 if I turn up the power to say, 80%, around 2400 RPM. It’s a bit better now, since I have taken some actions, but still, the heat overcomes the thermostats designed 180 degree setting at around 2200 RPM (runs around 190 degrees at 2200). Anyways, here’s what I’ve done:

– Replaced the raw water pump
– Improved raw water flow to the raw water pump by increasing hose sizes, changing out hard elbows to elbows with radiuses.
– Changed vented loop to a larger model with a much larger radius.
– Removed, examined, and blasted the exhaust elbow (it was not too bad at all)
– Re-plumbed how the engine supplies hot circulating coolant water to the house water heater. It was previously plumbed in series, which meant all the engine coolant had to pass through the hot water heater (not 100 percent true, because there was a small bypass installed). I now take the intake water for the hot water heater from the thermostat housing, and return it just prior to the coolant circulating pump. This is working fine.

Anyway, I am still running a bit warmer than I would like, and am wondering if any of you have done anything I haven’t thought of. Perhaps a higher capacity raw water pump than standard? I haven’t looked at the coolant circulating pump yet, but am hard pressed to fathom how this could be a problem. But I may look anyway. The PO left me with a brand new recirc pump, and all I need is a gasket, which can’t be too expensive (!?). Anyway, if anyone has conquered this problem on the W58, I am anxious to hear what you did!

David Tye
#189, Blue Moon

[kalinowski]

Aloha Typhoontye: the overheating problem was the last straw for me with the original W58. After nursing along the old Westerbeast, the unsolvable overheating hassles pushed me to decision time.

I chucked the W58, V-drive, fuel tank, and all. Went electric. Fits our boat usage perfectly with no worries.

Good Luck

Dan Kalinowski
S/V Jolly Lama #135
Keehi Lagoon, O’ahu

[joe shimkonis]

What about heat exchanger?

Joe Shimkonis

[RichCarter]

How do you know it’s running 220deg?  Perhaps your gauge is off?  If you were really running at 220, you’d have steam blowing out of your water heater after running a while.  190..200 would be normal.

 

Try replacing your thermostat.  Most can be matched at any auto parts shop, including the gasket.  Clean the cover assembly mating surface well before reinstalling.  I suggest a scotch-bright polishing pad.

http://www.harborfreight.com/complete-sanding-disc-kit-43029.html

 

 

Your heat exchanger may need to be cleaned.  You can remove it and send it out to a radiator shop to have it cleaned.  If you can open both ends of the heat exchanger, you can run a welding rod through the tubes can clean them yourself.  Not as good as sending it out but usually does the trick.

 

Rich

 

[john stevenson]

I also would suspect the heat exchanger.  When I purchased Sarah the W60 would also run hot with RPMs above 1800.  After going through some of the actions you identified I had the exchanger cleaned and the engine temperature was normal even at WOT.

Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
Sarah's Blog

[typhoontye]

Thanks for the responses, guys.  I failed to mention that I pulled the heat exchanger (both engine coolant and engine oil) and had them gone through and pressure checked at a local radiator shop that I trust.

 

I also didn’t mention that I ran a radiator flush through the engine to clean up any deposits in the block water jackets…ran the engine three times for thirty minutes with the radiator flush, then drained and refilled the system.  Don’t think it did a lot.

 

Another question: Do you utilize the coolant overheat transmitter in the thermostat housing to provide the overheat warning signal to your bell or horn?  On my engine, the overheat transmitter opening in the thermostat housing is plugged, and overheat warning is provided by a device that is bonded to the top of the extruded exhaust manifold housing.   It doesn’t measure coolant temperature, but surface temperature.  Due to its location, it is warning prematurely.  Don’t know why the PO did not use the standard overheat transmitter in the thermostat housing.  Perhaps cost was involved.

 

David

 

[typhoontye]

I believe the gauge is accurate because it records 180 degrees as the engine warms, and regulates at that temperature very reliably, until the power is pushed up.  And I know the thermostat in the engine is a 180 degree thermostat.  And I did replace it with an official new Westerbeke thermostat (no change).  It could be that the gauge is off at the limit of the gauge, near 220.  And it could also be that I am being over particular on the temp, and should be satisfied with 190-200 degrees at higher power settings in the Summer.

 

David

 

[because]

Buy an infrared heat gun at Lowes or Home Depot and shoot all parts of your engine and transmission and register their temps and the water and air temps as well and as you do this you will find your problem and also come to know the temperatures under different conditions. 

[Mark Oppe]

I keep my Pearson 424 ketch also powered with W58 in the Caribbean and have been plagued by over heating problems. I have had some success using a straight 50 grade diesel oil and keeping the oil level on the high side. 

I agree about cleaning the heat exchanger and your other actions seem sensible.

I have not seen any discussion on this site about engine oil grade, does anyone have any thought, experiences and opinions ??

Cheers

Mark

sv Mary Murray #164

Mob: 07870 266897

House: 01308 867093

Mark Oppe

[Discoverie]

Discoverie’s W58 had (mostly) the original pumps and heat exchangers. When I had coolant leakage problem I decide to replace all but the transmission cooler as it was newish. I agree that the primary heat exchanger is you most likely culprit. Given the age, you might consider replacement. http://lencocoolers.com was the source for mine. If you do order one be sure to document all the connections positions. I ordered mine initially based on the Westebeke parts catalog. But the configuration of the heat exchanger in my ’83 boat was different. Lenco was great. They took back that part and fabricated the correct part at no initial charge. I think the new heat exchanger cost $325. (Shout out to Bob Fine here for suggesting Lenco and doing the heavy lifting on this effort). 

But your situation caused me to think a bit. Now that I have a new cooling system, I should record the operating temp at various points in the system. With a IR thermometer a baseline could the documented for future reference. For example, as a heat exchanger gets gradually blocked, the return hose should show an increase from the baseline as less heat is removed. 

I’m curious to know what the temp is for your return hose. I’ll measure mine and air temp and the humidity. Comparing these could be interesting. 

Roger

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[typhoontye]

Thanks for the feedback guys.  It makes sense to invest in an infrared heat gun, and become more familiar with the heat of the various components under different conditions.

 

I’ve moved Blue Moon from my club marina to a friends house so I can spray the deck with Awlcraft.  Due to a spate of rain here, it looks like I will not make the return trip for a while, but will play with it on the return trip

 

David

 

[RichCarter]

David

I tried various 2-part coatings on my deck and found the too slippery. Let us know how this goes.

Rich

 

[robert-troisegmail-com]

Any chance that your cooling jacket of the v drive is partly blocked like mine was? Mine is plumbed to be the first item after the sea cock and was 80% clogged with deposits!
Bob, Folly II #131

[typhoontye]

Hello Rich,

 

The Awlcraft is an Awlgrip product that I will apply as a topcoat to the non-non-skid areas of the deck and cockpit.  I’m using Interlux Interdeck for the non-skid.  It was recommended by an avid J22 racer, who applied the product to her boat and is happy with its properties.  I also saw the product applied to a Seamaster 47 and it looked good.  We will apply the Awlcraft at my friends dock (if it ever stops raining for long enough), and roll on the Interdeck back at our marina.  I will keep the group apprised…

 

David

 

[typhoontye]

I don’t think so Bob.  The v-drive was replaced by the PO about  a year before I acquired the vessel, which was two years ago.  Still has the nice blue paint.  Plus, I pulled the hose to the raw water pump with the raw water seacock opened, and water flowed pretty rapidly.  I appreciate the thought.  I too wondered about restrictions in the v-drive.

 

Bought the infrared heat gun today for thirty bucks at Lowes.  Fun to play around with and I look forward to using it for its intended purpose!

 

David

 

[typhoontye]

Hello all,

 

I ran the boat at 2200 RPM for an hour and achieved these results:

 

Cockpit gauge reading:  190-205 degrees

Thermostat housing surface reading (with infrared heat detector): 197-203 degrees

Heat exchanger, cool end: 118-130 degrees

Heat exchanger, hot end: 170-200 degrees

Galvanized exhaust pipe (between extruded exhaust manifold and exhaust elbow): 360-380 degrees

Extruded exhaust manifold surface temp: 170-180 degrees

 

Conditions were:

OAT: 92 degrees

Water temp: About 83 degrees

Humidity: 72 percent

 

Performance achieved:

SOG: 6.7 knots with a 7 knot head wind.  7.6 knots on a reciprocal heading

 

Maybe this is as good as it gets in the Summer.  I believe I am a bit over propped, as evidenced by my WOT max RPM of around 2850 RPM.  This doesn’t help, I know.  When I install the new flex o fold, this will hopefully correct this and perhaps the motor will run cooler.

 

One other problem I need to resolve is the overheat warning horn issue.  It activates under the conditions described above, and won’t shut off unless I pull power to the circuit.  My overheat transmitter is an after market piece, I believe.  It is mounted (bonded) to the surface of the extruded exhaust manifold and relies on surface temperature, not direct water temperature.  I was surprised to find that this portion of the engine (the surface of the extruded exhaust manifold) is relatively cool, measuring only 170-180 degrees under the conditions described above.  I wonder if any of you have dealt with this issue?  I don’t like disabling the warning circuit as a regular practice, for obvious reasons.

 

David

 

[Discoverie]

Excellent data you’ve collected. I’ll try to do same this weekend and post. 

Question: when you measured the temp around the engine, was the engine cover partially in place or fully open?

On a temporary solution for disabling the buzzer. The simplest solution would be to get a switch at the end of a pair of wires and put this in series with the buzzer. you could put the switch somewhere handy, perhaps run the pair of wires up through a lazaret. For something with less of a potential trip hazard, and if you’re hardly with circuits, you could wire up a delay switch that opens for a fixed period of time before closing. I’m thinking of something with a trickle charge to a capacitor and a relay would do the trick. Best solution, of course, is to identify the cause of overheating. 

For reference, I pasted the freshwater cooling system diagram from the owners manual below

rb

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[RichCarter]

Your overheat buzzer shouldn’t sound unless the temperature gets well above 240deg.  Have you replaced the sender yet?

 

Don’t put a switch on the buzzer.  It’s a land mine.  My yacht club had a similar switch on the club launch engine.  Someone accidentally opened the switch and the buzzer didn’t sound when the engine had an issue.  The result was a seized engine.

 

Rich

 

[unabated]

What exactly needed to be changed on the new heat exchanger. Could you have rerouted the hoses?

[typhoontye]

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Hello Roger,

 

I took the temps with the engine cover and cowling fully removed, then I re-installed the cowl and the cover, ran for 10 minutes or so, then removed the lid and immediately took more readings.  I was a little surprised that the readings didn’t really change.

 

One thing I didn’t do, but in retrospect wish that I had, is shut off the water going to the house hot water heater to see if that would make a difference.  Perhaps that would force more water through the engine water jackets and result in better cooling? Don’t know.  My hot water heater takes engine coolant from the thermostat housing and returns it to the line just prior to the fresh water (circulating) pump.

 

On the buzzer, the PO apparently did install a switch down by the bell itself, in the Port side lazarette.  A little un-handy to get to, but it works.  But, I really think the buzzer (bell, in my case) is coming on too early.  Perhaps the overheat detector is defective. The detector is bonded with epoxy to the top of the extruded exhaust manifold (flow controller) near the exhaust end.  I expected the temps to be very high at this point on the engine, and attributed the pre-mature ‘alerts’ to this factor.  But according to the infrared heat detector, this is actually a pretty cool part of the engine, measuring 170-189 degrees.  I need to do some more research on this one.  Perhaps I just need a new detector.

 

Thank you for your correspondence on this issue!

 

David

 

PS, the diagram didn’t come through, but appreciate the effort.  I possess the owner’s manual, and believe I have studied the diagram that you tried to send.

 

[typhoontye]

Hello Rich,

 

Haven’t replaced the sender yet.  Mine is an aftermarket device that is bonded to the top of the extruded exhaust manifold near the exhaust end, and it measures surface temp, not water temp.  Surprisingly, during my test run, this area of the engine only runs 170 to 180 degrees.  I suspect the sender and need to do a bit more research.  I don’t know why the PO installed this sensor and apparently discarded the original, which would have been located in the thermostat housing, I believe.  The wiring for the original sensor appears to be gone, and I’m having a hard time making heads or tails of the wiring to the aftermarket unit.  So I have the choice of rewiring to the original location and purchasing an original equipment sensor, or finding something to replace what I have that will alert at a more appropriate temperature.  Or at least that’s the way I see it.

 

The PO has a switch on the buzzer (bell in my case) already.  And I agree with you, I am uncomfortable using it, and when I have, I watch the instruments closely.  But this situation has to go

 

David

 

[Discoverie]

Results from Discoverie in line:

�

I ran the boat at 2200 RPM for an hour and achieved these results:

�

Cockpit gauge reading: 190-205 degrees

Discoverie: 180 continuous 

Thermostat housing surface reading (with infrared heat detector): 197-203 degrees

Discoverie: 132 (didn’t believe this a first, but took six consistent readings)

Heat exchanger, cool end: 118-130 degrees

Discoverie: 107

Heat exchanger, hot end: 170-200 degrees

Discoverie: 175

Galvanized exhaust pipe (between extruded exhaust manifold and exhaust elbow): 360-380 degrees

Discoverie: 255

Extruded exhaust manifold surface temp: 170-180 degrees

Also noted on Discoverie

Engine Head temp: 177

Radiator cap: 162

Oil cooler: 172

�

Conditions were:

OAT: 92 degrees

Discoverie: 78

Water temp: About 83 degrees

Discoverie: 76

Humidity: 72 percent

Discoverie: not sure but highish

�

Performance achieved:

SOG: 6.7 knots with a 7 knot head wind. 7.6 knots on a reciprocal heading

Discoverie: 6.1 knots with 8 knot head wind

Engine cover top off, but cowling on

To me the most interesting thing about this is the consistency of the metrics between the hot and cooler engine. But to the point and focusing on the heat exchanger, both are cooling by about 70 degrees. Given that this is a primary cooling device for the engine temp I’d look at  the heat exchanger. It may be that a partially limed-up heat exchanger is blocked from removing heat at lower temperatures and gets more efficent at higher temperatures. Essentially setting the temperature at 200 degrees vs 180. 

[typhoontye]

Hello Roger,

Sorry I did not read your response till just now. Must have come in during one of those periods when I was having some difficulty getting messages. My bad for not following up. Thank you very much for your data. Very interesting, and despite the differences in OAT and raw water temp, I think your motor runs substantially cooler. I plan to pull my engine this Summer and repair oil leaks, replace some components, etc.. This might be a good time to replace the heat exchanger. I also plan to pull the recirculating pump and inspect. I know these are not supposed to be a cause of overheating, but know at least one case in an automotive gas engine that the metal impeller was so abraded through long use that it was not doing the job. I will report my findings.

Again, apologies for not responding sooner…

David

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