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Robert and Tor
I cut a hole in the bottom of the anchor well directly below the fairlead
from the windlass so that the chain falls into the lower locker. Many have
done this, and I see that Robert has done this too. Unfortunately, the
chain forms castles under the pipe, so it tends to bind in the pipe after a
few dozen feet. If I don’t feed it below, it does the same thing in the
anchor well under the windlass after about 20 feet. Many of us have done
something similar, so there’s nothing uncommon in my installation. I’ve
been searching for some way to force the chain to fall into the lower locker
without jamming, but I’ve come up blank. Most of my anchoring needs are
satisfied with less than 100 feet of chain, so I leave half of it below and
lay the other half in the anchor well. The disadvantage with this
arrangement is that it makes retrieving the anchor in a blow a two-person
job. One person at the wheel to run the engine and a second person to
retrieve the chain and pull it back in the chain-locker so that it doesn’t
bind up. I have five weeks vacation planned on the boat this summer; much
of it alone since my wife doesn’t have as much vacation. I’ll have to watch
the weather when anchoring because I may not be able to pull anchor alone if
weather deteriorates. Too bad, since there’s a windlass switch at the
wheel.I don’t know what your experience is, so please pardon the comment if this
is obvious. My experience offshore is limited to a single passage to
Bermuda many years ago, so I don’t consider myself seasoned. Still, there’s
a lot to be said for having been offshore in the boat. While I’ve seen big
waves near shore, there’s something entirely different about being battered
for a few hours vs a few days. We got the snot beat out of us on the way
out, but that’s another story. I had a chance to see what the 424 can take
and where its weaknesses are. While the boat is generally well-built, the
anchor locker is a weak point. A $6 spray-can of foam insulation squirted
under the toe-rail above the forward bulkhead is all that is needed to keep
water out of the forward cabin should the anchor locker fill, and fill it
will if you head into rough seas. This means that if you have a fairlead
cut in the bottom of the locker to feed chain below, you’ll need to secure
it before heading offshore. Clay or even spray-foam insulation would work.
If you have a vertical windlass mounted in that locker, you should expect
the motor to be under water if you get into a rough headsea. Glassing over
the locker hatch is an obvious solution and far superior to just stuffing
foam under the toe-rail; assuming that you’ve done something to keep the
water from running down the hawser and into your bilge.The other weak points IMHO are:
Flat forward sections of the hull.
Huge cockpit.
Transom chainplate (for sloop and cutter rigs).Rich
BlackSheep #47
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The half and half solution is the one I use – I raise the anchor with the hatch open so I can use my foot to push the chain pile away. It's crude, but it works. I haven't done it in a blow, but in 20 – 30 knots, there's a great deal of running back and forth from the bow to the wheel.
I guess I'll have to figure that out, too. Thanks for the ideas!
Bob
PS. I sail almost exclusively alone.
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Robert and Tor
I cut a hole in the bottom of the anchor well directly below the fairlead
from the windlass so that the chain falls into the lower locker. Many have
done this, and I see that Robert has done this too. Unfortunately, the
chain forms castles under the pipe, so it tends to bind in the pipe after a
few dozen feet. If I don't feed it below, it does the same thing in the
anchor well under the windlass after about 20 feet. Many of us have done
something similar, so there's nothing uncommon in my installation. I've
been searching for some way to force the chain to fall into the lower locker
without jamming, but I've come up blank. Most of my anchoring needs are
satisfied with less than 100 feet of chain, so I leave half of it below and
lay the other half in the anchor well. The disadvantage with this
arrangement is that it makes retrieving the anchor in a blow a two-person
job. One person at the wheel to run the engine and a second person to
retrieve the chain and pull it back in the chain-locker so that it doesn't
bind up. I have five weeks vacation planned on the boat this summer; much
of it alone since my wife doesn't have as much vacation. I'll have to watch
the weather when anchoring because I may not be able to pull anchor alone if
weather deteriorates. Too bad, since there's a windlass switch at the
wheel.I don't know what your experience is, so please pardon the comment if this
is obvious. My experience offshore is limited to a single passage to
Bermuda many years ago, so I don't consider myself seasoned. Still, there's
a lot to be said for having been offshore in the boat. While I've seen big
waves near shore, there's something entirely different about being battered
for a few hours vs a few days. We got the snot beat out of us on the way
out, but that's another story. I had a chance to see what the 424 can take
and where its weaknesses are. While the boat is generally well-built, the
anchor locker is a weak point. A $6 spray-can of foam insulation squirted
under the toe-rail above the forward bulkhead is all that is needed to keep
water out of the forward cabin should the anchor locker fill, and fill it
will if you head into rough seas. This means that if you have a fairlead
cut in the bottom of the locker to feed chain below, you'll need to secure
it before heading offshore. Clay or even spray-foam insulation would work.
If you have a vertical windlass mounted in that locker, you should expect
the motor to be under water if you get into a rough headsea. Glassing over
the locker hatch is an obvious solution and far superior to just stuffing
foam under the toe-rail; assuming that you've done something to keep the
water from running down the hawser and into your bilge.The other weak points IMHO are:
Flat forward sections of the hull.
Huge cockpit.
Transom chainplate (for sloop and cutter rigs).Rich
BlackSheep #47
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
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Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
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Rich,
My last cruising boat had a vertical electric windlass mounted on a typically solid foredeck (solid as opposed to having
a hatch in it), the windlass deck pipes positioned over the deepest part of a divided chain locker. Whether using a
vertical or horizontal windlass, this is probably the most common foredeck configuration in contemporary, cruising-type
sailboats. This is what I am now emulating on Silver Heels.Having the deck pipes directly above the deepest part of the chain locker enables the greatest amount of chain to pile
up before it reaches the underside of the deck pipe. Still, if you pile enough chain into any locker it will eventually
block the deck pipe. This happened often on my last boat, which carried lots of chain. To remedy the situation, I kept a
2′ piece of broom handle on the foredeck, which I habitually stuck into the deck pipe whenever the chain pile neared the
top of the locker when weighing anchor. A quick flick of the stick would knock over the pile inside the locker, making
room for more chain. Of course, there’s a point at which you cannot stuff more chain into any locker, but the broom
stick trick at least let me get the most possible into what I had. Knocking over the pile never once caused a chain jam.As for buckets of water getting into the 424’s anchor locker in rough weather, what can I say? The standard foredeck /
chain locker is not an offshore design.Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor, I have to meet you! The broomstick and chain story had me laughing!
The anchor well thing works if 1; you can seal it for offshore, and 2; you can store your anchors in it (my Ericson fit everything and drained pretty well). The anchors I have are not easy to store. But there are really big limber holes between the lower locker and the bilge…
Bob
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Rich,My last cruising boat had a vertical electric windlass mounted on a typically solid foredeck (solid as opposed to having
a hatch in it), the windlass deck pipes positioned over the deepest part of a divided chain locker. Whether using a
vertical or horizontal windlass, this is probably the most common foredeck configuration in contemporary, cruising-type
sailboats. This is what I am now emulating on Silver Heels.Having the deck pipes directly above the deepest part of the chain locker enables the greatest amount of chain to pile
up before it reaches the underside of the deck pipe. Still, if you pile enough chain into any locker it will eventually
block the deck pipe. This happened often on my last boat, which carried lots of chain. To remedy the situation, I kept a
2' piece of broom handle on the foredeck, which I habitually stuck into the deck pipe whenever the chain pile neared the
top of the locker when weighing anchor. A quick flick of the stick would knock over the pile inside the locker, making
room for more chain. Of course, there's a point at which you cannot stuff more chain into any locker, but the broom
stick trick at least let me get the most possible into what I had. Knocking over the pile never once caused a chain jam.As for buckets of water getting into the 424's anchor locker in rough weather, what can I say? The standard foredeck /
chain locker is not an offshore design.Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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Bob,
I look forward to meeting you, too, and many others from this group. I’d hoped to make the rendezvous this summer, but have decided to stay put and finish the remaining boat upgrade projects on my list, instead. Maybe next year.
I’ve never removed anchors from their bow rollers for offshore passages. A hundred pounds, even on the very tip of the bow, shouldn’t make all that much difference to the trim and ride of a cruising sailboat of any size. The chain – 200′ total in my case, and I may increase that eventually – weighs more: 200′ of 3/8″ G4 chain = about 300 lbs. Mine will live in the chain locker most of the time, of course, but it would be best to carry that weight farther aft and lower down during passages. I really need to log some sailing time on my boat to know for sure, and that’s probably another year off.
Not to worry, though. I’m having fun doing what I’m doing right now, and I’m learning good stuff literally every day. Today it’s… FIBERGLASSING! Oh, boy.
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi Tor,
I can only give you one tip for fiberglassing because you know to wear protective clothing and all that stuff but you won't. I know you won't, and you know you won't, protestations aside. Here's the tip: At the end of the day when you shower, shower in lukewarm water – the same temperature as your skin. If it's too cold, the pores will close on the fiberglass bits and keep them there. If it's too warm, the pores will open up and flush the bits inside. Either case will result in days of itching. Luke warm water will allow the soap and water to wash the dust away.
How do I know this? It works the same for radioactive contamination. I was a health physicist for a number of years.
I mention the protective gear with tongue in cheek because normally I'll wear it and then at the end of the day there'll be this one last thing to touch up I see after I've stripped the gear off. It never fails.
Have fun, and I sure hope it's not too hot!
Bob
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:17 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Bob,I look forward to meeting you, too, and many others from this group. I'd hoped to make the rendezvous this summer, but have decided to stay put and finish the remaining boat upgrade projects on my list, instead. Maybe next year.
I've never removed anchors from their bow rollers for offshore passages. A hundred pounds, even on the very tip of the bow, shouldn't make all that much difference to the trim and ride of a cruising sailboat of any size. The chain – 200' total in my case, and I may increase that eventually – weighs more: 200' of 3/8″ G4 chain = about 300 lbs. Mine will live in the chain locker most of the time, of course, but it would be best to carry that weight farther aft and lower down during passages. I really need to log some sailing time on my boat to know for sure, and that's probably another year off.
Not to worry, though. I'm having fun doing what I'm doing right now, and I'm learning good stuff literally every day. Today it's… FIBERGLASSING! Oh, boy.
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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Here’s another tip from the technical end. I’m in the process of repairing the transom chainplate area. This involves some glasswork. I got a tip from a guy who did glasswork for me a few years ago. He uses an angle-grinder with a sander attachment for grinding the old surface before doing new work. The sanding attachment can be purchased from most building supply stores. If you don’t properly clean the area, the secondary bond won’t adhere. With a coarse sanding pad, the grinder goes through glass like a hot knife through butter. The only problem is that it kicks up a cloud of fiberglass dust. I don’t know if the glass dust shortens the life of the grinder, but a new grinder is only a small boat unit. Its not possible to avoid getting dust all over yourself. Good eye protection is a must!
—
Rich Carter
Original message
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Hi Rich,
I am new to this so forgive me if this idea seem odd –
It seems like some type of guide for chain heading into the lower locker could help.
If I am invisioning this your chain is passing through the deck into the “upper” locker into a hawse pipe to the lower locker. Would some type of collar (a funnel) hepl to gide the chain as it passes into the second pipe? Or would this just give the chain a “plate” to build up on.– Eric
Rich Carter <> wrote:
Robert and Tor
I cut a hole in the bottom of the anchor well directly below the fairlead
from the windlass so that the chain falls into the lower locker. Many have
done this, and I see that Robert has done this too. Unfortunately, the
chain forms castles under the pipe, so it tends to bind in the pipe after a
few dozen feet. If I don’t feed it below, it does the same thing in the
anchor well under the windlass after about 20 feet. Many of us have done
something similar, so there’s nothing uncommon in my installation. I’ve
been searching for some way to force the chain to fall into the lower locker
without jamming, but I’ve come up blank. Most of my anchoring needs are
satisfied with less than 100 feet of chain, so I leave half of it below and
lay the other half in the anchor well. The disadvantage with this
arrangement is that it makes retrieving the anchor in a blow a two-person
job. One person at the wheel to run the engine and a second person to
retrieve the chain and pull it back in the chain-locker so that it doesn’t
bind up. I have five weeks vacation planned on the boat this summer; much
of it alone since my wife doesn’t have as much vacation. I’ll have to watch
the weather when anchoring because I may not be able to pull anchor alone if
weather deteriorates. Too bad, since there’s a windlass switch at the
wheel.I don’t know what your experience is, so please pardon the comment if this
is obvious. My experience offshore is limited to a single passage to
Bermuda many years ago, so I don’t consider myself seasoned. Still, there’s
a lot to be said for having been offshore in the boat. While I’ve seen big
waves near shore, there’s something entirely different about being battered
for a few hours vs a few days. We got the snot beat out of us on the way
out, but that’s another story. I had a chance to see what the 424 can take
and where its weaknesses are. While the boat is generally well-built, the
anchor locker is a weak point. A $6 spray-can of foam insulation squirted
under the toe-rail above the forward bulkhead is all that is needed to keep
water out of the forward cabin should the anchor locker fill, and fill it
will if you head into rough seas. This means that if you have a fairlead
cut in the bottom of the locker to feed chain below, you’ll need to secure
it before heading offshore. Clay or even spray-foam insulation would work.
If you have a vertical windlass mounted in that locker, you should expect
the motor to be under water if you get into a rough headsea. Glassing over
the locker hatch is an obvious solution and far superior to just stuffing
foam under the toe-rail; assuming that you’ve done something to keep the
water from running down the hawser and into your bilge.The other weak points IMHO are:
Flat forward sections of the hull.
Huge cockpit.
Transom chainplate (for sloop and cutter rigs).Rich
BlackSheep #47
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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Aligned properly, what you're talking about works like a charm – big boats (ships) use that method. Usually, there's a funnel like arrangement that allows the chain to be a little off center.
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 8:27 AM, Eric Lorentzon < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Rich,
I am new to this so forgive me if this idea seem odd –
It seems like some type of guide for chain heading into the lower locker could help.
If I am invisioning this your chain is passing through the deck into the “upper” locker into a hawse pipe to the lower locker. Would some type of collar (a funnel) hepl to gide the chain as it passes into the second pipe? Or would this just give the chain a “plate” to build up on.– Eric
Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Robert and Tor
I cut a hole in the bottom of the anchor well directly below the fairlead
from the windlass so that the chain falls into the lower locker. Many have
done this, and I see that Robert has done this too. Unfortunately, the
chain forms castles under the pipe, so it tends to bind in the pipe after a
few dozen feet. If I don't feed it below, it does the same thing in the
anchor well under the windlass after about 20 feet. Many of us have done
something similar, so there's nothing uncommon in my installation. I've
been searching for some way to force the chain to fall into the lower locker
without jamming, but I've come up blank. Most of my anchoring needs are
satisfied with less than 100 feet of chain, so I leave half of it below and
lay the other half in the anchor well. The disadvantage with this
arrangement is that it makes retrieving the anchor in a blow a two-person
job. One person at the wheel to run the engine and a second person to
retrieve the chain and pull it back in the chain-locker so that it doesn't
bind up. I have five weeks vacation planned on the boat this summer; much
of it alone since my wife doesn't have as much vacation. I'll have to watch
the weather when anchoring because I may not be able to pull anchor alone if
weather deteriorates. Too bad, since there's a windlass switch at the
wheel.I don't know what your experience is, so please pardon the comment if this
is obvious. My experience offshore is limited to a single passage to
Bermuda many years ago, so I don't consider myself seasoned. Still, there's
a lot to be said for having been offshore in the boat. While I've seen big
waves near shore, there's something entirely different about being battered
for a few hours vs a few days. We got the snot beat out of us on the way
out, but that's another story. I had a chance to see what the 424 can take
and where its weaknesses are. While the boat is generally well-built, the
anchor locker is a weak point. A $6 spray-can of foam insulation squirted
under the toe-rail above the forward bulkhead is all that is needed to keep
water out of the forward cabin should the anchor locker fill, and fill it
will if you head into rough seas. This means that if you have a fairlead
cut in the bottom of the locker to feed chain below, you'll need to secure
it before heading offshore. Clay or even spray-foam insulation would work.
If you have a vertical windlass mounted in that locker, you should expect
the motor to be under water if you get into a rough headsea. Glassing over
the locker hatch is an obvious solution and far superior to just stuffing
foam under the toe-rail; assuming that you've done something to keep the
water from running down the hawser and into your bilge.The other weak points IMHO are:
Flat forward sections of the hull.
Huge cockpit.
Transom chainplate (for sloop and cutter rigs).Rich
BlackSheep #47
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
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Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
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That’s a really good tip Bob, I’ve also found that using dawn seems to help get a lot of it out of the skin.
On 4/24/08 6:09 AM, Robert Fine wrote :
Quote:Hi Tor,I can only give you one tip for fiberglassing because you know to wear protective clothing and all that stuff but you won’t. I know you won’t, and you know you won’t, protestations aside. Here’s the tip: At the end of the day when you shower, shower in lukewarm water – the same temperature as your skin. If it’s too cold, the pores will close on the fiberglass bits and keep them there. If it’s too warm, the pores will open up and flush the bits inside. Either case will result in days of itching. Luke warm water will allow the soap and water to wash the dust away.
How do I know this? It works the same for radioactive contamination. I was a health physicist for a number of years.
I mention the protective gear with tongue in cheek because normally I’ll wear it and then at the end of the day there’ll be this one last thing to touch up I see after I’ve stripped the gear off. It never fails.
Have fun, and I sure hope it’s not too hot!
Bob
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:17 AM, Silver Heels <> wrote:
Quote:Bob,I look forward to meeting you, too, and many others from this group. I’d hoped to make the rendezvous this summer, but have decided to stay put and finish the remaining boat upgrade projects on my list, instead. Maybe next year.
I’ve never removed anchors from their bow rollers for offshore passages. A hundred pounds, even on the very tip of the bow, shouldn’t make all that much difference to the trim and ride of a cruising sailboat of any size. The chain – 200′ total in my case, and I may increase that eventually – weighs more: 200′ of 3/8″ G4 chain = about 300 lbs. Mine will live in the chain locker most of the time, of course, but it would be best to carry that weight farther aft and lower down during passages. I really need to log some sailing time on my boat to know for sure, and that’s probably another year off.
Not to worry, though. I’m having fun doing what I’m doing right now, and I’m learning good stuff literally every day. Today it’s… FIBERGLASSING! Oh, boy.
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us <http://www.SilverHeels.us>
Quote:
Original Message
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That is a good tip about the shower water temperature, Bob. I’d always thought cold was better for post-‘glass clean-up, but what you say makes sense. I do cover myself pretty well, though: hat, broad headband over my forehead, goggles, disposable nose-&-mouth filtering mask, long sleeve shirt buttoned all the way up in front, gloves, long trousers, socks & shoes. This is not as thorough as the pros’ suits & masks, but for my little jobs it seems adequate. So far no itching when I wear it all.
Thank goodness summer hasn’t arrived yet in NE Florida! I’m hoping to have the ‘glass work done before then. The temperatures this week are a comfortable 70’s & low 80’s.
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Another good tip. Thanks, Rich. In fact, I “discovered” the angle grinder this past year, thanks to watching lots of
smarter boat people working on their own projects here in the yard. Now I can’t imagine how I ever got along with one!
I’ve ground ‘glass in the lazarette and in the chain locker, cleaning off the inside of the hull for bonding, and know
what you mean about the dust. I’ve found a vacuum cleaner does a pretty good job of cleaning up.Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Duct tape wound around a dowel or paper towel tube
works too. Work it like your taking lint of a sweater.
alan— Silver Heels <> wrote:
Quote:That is a good tip about the shower water
temperature, Bob. I’d always
thought cold was better for post-‘glass clean-up,
but what you say makes
sense. I do cover myself pretty well, though: hat,
broad headband over my
forehead, goggles, disposable nose-&-mouth filtering
mask, long sleeve shirt
buttoned all the way up in front, gloves, long
trousers, socks & shoes. This
is not as thorough as the pros’ suits & masks, but
for my little jobs it
seems adequate. So far no itching when I wear it
all.Thank goodness summer hasn’t arrived yet in NE
Florida! I’m hoping to have
the ‘glass work done before then. The temperatures
this week are a
comfortable 70’s & low 80’s.Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Original Message
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Eric,
The problem is related to the placement of the windlass. Because Pearson mounted a well door on the foredeck, this leaves little room to mount a windlass without substantial modification. I cut the forward end of the hatch to allow the door to clear the motor.http://www.richardcarter.net/My_Homepage_Files/Page16.html
Having the windlass mounted up forward like this leaves the forward deck uncluttered and retains the deck well for storage. It forces you to mount the windlass too far forward to make use good of the bow locker however. I glassed a PVC pipe in just below the windlass fairlead. This allows the chain to fall through the pipe directly into the bow locker beneath the anchor well. There isn’t much room below the pipe for the chain to fall because it hits the bow. After 20 or 30 feet have fallen into the lower locker, the chain builds a castle in there until it obstructs the pipe. A crewmember has to climb into forward locker and knock down the chain.
A better solution would be to remove the bow locker and glass the foredeck well hatch closed. This would allow the windlass to be moved aft on the foredeck where the chain can fall into a deeper part of the forward locker. It eliminates the anchor well entirely. Some might object to the loss of storage, but I find it of very limited value. My working anchor is stowed up on the roller where it can be used. The well is cluttered with chain, so storage for anything else like a second anchor is not practical. If the locker is glassed over, it also prevents water from finding its way in there and flooding the motor, solenoids, and deck switches. If this were done, I would discourage removal of the existing locker bottom bulkhead. This is structural. Cutting a hole in it as Tor has done would not compromise the hull however.
Glassing over the deck hatch will be a trick. You need a very solid foundation for the windlass.
Another possible solution would be to move the windlass farther aft on the foredeck behind the anchor well. This would allow the well to be used, but I fail to see how you could open it with one or two chains running over it. You’d have to run pipes through the V-berth cabin above the bunk. I’ve seen this done on other boats.
A third option would be to put a small vertical roller up forward to redirect the chain down the starboard side of the bow to the side of the anchor well. The chain could then fall into a deeper part of the forepeak. This might work with a vertical windlass.
One potential problem with stowing the chain in the foreward locker is that muck from the chain would collect in there and find its way into the bilge. You could glass in a lower bottom bulkhead to keep the slime from running down into the bilge, but you’d need some way to get the water and muck out. A lower well drain might work if you put a check-valve on it. Without a check-valve, water would be forced in there when running into a head-sea. I don’t know how reliable a check valve would be with muck running through it. There are a number of dinghy bailers that have check-valves that might work. As long as the locker were made water-tight, I suppose it would be OK. A water-tight bulkhead door could be fitted behind the existing access hatch to allow access to the chain locker for cleaning and maintenance. The door would need to be robust to insure that chain bouncing around in the forepeak doesn’t break through the access door. An aluminum panel screwed in every fe
w inch
es around its circumference would probably work.—
Rich Carter
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Attached is the windlass I put on last summer. A PVC
pipe goes through the anchor locker into the chain
locker below. I have it angled such that it forces the
chain to the aft end of the chain locker so it can
pile up higher before it gets jammed. I have had 150
ft of 5/16 HT out and retrieved without issue. Much
more than that it’s hit and miss.
alan____________________________________________________________________________________
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Alan,
Pretty cool. Can your windlass pull the port anchor, too?
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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The idea I’ve been tinkering with is to mount a vertical windlass in the aft part of the locker, and having the hatch close over it, I’ve seen some boats, such as the hunter 36, that have a small circular hole just big enough for the rope capstan to protrude. Anyone done something like that?
On 4/24/08 1:40 PM, wrote :
Eric,
The problem is related to the placement of the windlass. Because Pearson mounted a well door on the foredeck, this leaves little room to mount a windlass without substantial modification. I cut the forward end of the hatch to allow the door to clear the motor.http://www.richardcarter.net/My_Homepage_Files/Page16.html
Having the windlass mounted up forward like this leaves the forward deck uncluttered and retains the deck well for storage. It forces you to mount the windlass too far forward to make use good of the bow locker however. I glassed a PVC pipe in just below the windlass fairlead. This allows the chain to fall through the pipe directly into the bow locker beneath the anchor well. There isn’t much room below the pipe for the chain to fall because it hits the bow. After 20 or 30 feet have fallen into the lower locker, the chain builds a castle in there until it obstructs the pipe. A crewmember has to climb into forward locker and knock down the chain.
A better solution would be to remove the bow locker and glass the foredeck well hatch closed. This would allow the windlass to be moved aft on the foredeck where the chain can fall into a deeper part of the forward locker. It eliminates the anchor well entirely. Some might object to the loss of storage, but I find it of very limited value. My working anchor is stowed up on the roller where it can be used. The well is cluttered with chain, so storage for anything else like a second anchor is not practical. If the locker is glassed over, it also prevents water from finding its way in there and flooding the motor, solenoids, and deck switches. If this were done, I would discourage removal of the existing locker bottom bulkhead. This is structural. Cutting a hole in it as Tor has done would not compromise the hull however.
Glassing over the deck hatch will be a trick. You need a very solid foundation for the windlass.
Another possible solution would be to move the windlass farther aft on the foredeck behind the anchor well. This would allow the well to be used, but I fail to see how you could open it with one or two chains running over it. You’d have to run pipes through the V-berth cabin above the bunk. I’ve seen this done on other boats.
A third option would be to put a small vertical roller up forward to redirect the chain down the starboard side of the bow to the side of the anchor well. The chain could then fall into a deeper part of the forepeak. This might work with a vertical windlass.
One potential problem with stowing the chain in the foreward locker is that muck from the chain would collect in there and find its way into the bilge. You could glass in a lower bottom bulkhead to keep the slime from running down into the bilge, but you’d need some way to get the water and muck out. A lower well drain might work if you put a check-valve on it. Without a check-valve, water would be forced in there when running into a head-sea. I don’t know how reliable a check valve would be with muck running through it. There are a number of dinghy bailers that have check-valves that might work. As long as the locker were made water-tight, I suppose it would be OK. A water-tight bulkhead door could be fitted behind the existing access hatch to allow access to the chain locker for cleaning and maintenance. The door would need to be robust to insure that chain bouncing around in the forepeak doesn’t break through the access door. An aluminum panel screwed in every fe
w inch
es around its circumference would probably work.—
Rich CarterPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I’d really
like to see a picture of the underside if you ever get a chance. Also, what size pipe did you use? Is the straight or are there any elbows in it?On 4/24/08 2:50 PM, alan P wrote :
Attached is the windlass I put on last summer. A PVC
pipe goes through the anchor locker into the chain
locker below. I have it angled such that it forces the
chain to the aft end of the chain locker so it can
pile up higher before it gets jammed. I have had 150
ft of 5/16 HT out and retrieved without issue. Much
more than that it’s hit and miss.
alan____________________________________________________________________________________
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I have some pictures here someplace. I’ll have to
scarf around and see what I did with ’em. I’ll be out
there on the weekend in any event and take more.
I used 1 1/2 PVC. It uses 2 45’s, a straight length
and then another 45 I think. I’ll take some pictures.
I have to tell ya, it’s a science experiment to get
it to work right. Pearson didn’t make it easy.
alan
— Aaron Lynch <> wrote:I¹d really
like to see a picture of the underside if you ever
get a chance. Also,
what size pipe did you use? Is the straight or are
there any elbows in it?On 4/24/08 2:50 PM, alan P wrote :
Attached is the windlass I put on last summer. A
PVC
pipe goes through the anchor locker into the chain
locker below. I have it angled such that it forcesthe
chain to the aft end of the chain locker so it can
pile up higher before it gets jammed. I have had150
ft of 5/16 HT out and retrieved without issue.
Much
more than that it’s hit and miss.
alan______________________________________________________________________________
______
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Rich,
Your observations are all right on. Regarding the “solid foundation” for the windlass on a ‘glassed-over foredeck, I’ve
got an 18″-wide plate of 1/4″ aluminum long enough to span the midsection of the original foredeck hatch opening and
reach to the outboard edges of the existing deck port and starboard. I’ll epoxy and thru-bolt this plate to the
underside of the deck on both sides. Over this I’ll set a heavily ‘glassed panel with a 1/4″ plywood core, , which I’m
building. This will rest on the aluminum plate and on the remaining deck lip left over from the old hatch arrangement,
and fill in the open space of the original foredeck hatch opening. The panel will be epoxied onto the plate and
bordering lip, and then fiberglassed to the surrounding deck with feathered ‘glass tape. Finally, the whole will be
faired and Awlgripped with non-skid. On top of this new deck, above the chain locker, will be a 1-1/4″ teak block upon
which will sit the new windlass, bolted through the block, deck and 1/4″ aluminum plate beneath it. It that doesn’t
hold, I’ll buy a Westsail 32.Dealing with “the muck from the chain” is another matter, and one I have not entirely come to terms with. I’m installing
a deckwash system to rinse anchor chain as it comes aboard, but still some muck will inevitably find its way into the
chain locker. Obviously, I don’t want that stuff running into the shallow bilge area around and just forward of the main
mast step, but neither can I seal the chain locker and just let the ooze collect at the bottom of the locker. I didn’t
much care for your idea of a “lower well drain” directly overboard when I first read it, but now that I think about it
maybe it’s not such a bad idea, even without a check valve. In fact, if the chain locker were really sealed watertight
from the forward cabin, which means making a watertight bulkhead door as you suggested, then seawater splashing into and
running out of the lower chain locker might not be so bad. It might even keep it perpetually clean. I’ll just need to
work in some kind of ventilation to allow it to dry out when not underway. I’ll have to think about this some more.
Thanks for the idea!Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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Tor
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about it. Its one of those things that
“aren’t broken yet don’t work right.” It could be quite a lot of time
before I get the “broken and needs to be fixed now” things out of the way so
that I can work on at it.Without a check-valve, water could be forced in through the drain hole
faster than it could run out between waves. This would cause it to fill
with water; quite a lot of weight. Perhaps a drain hole on each side
rather than on the bow would work better. A cupped cover over the holes
facing aft would keep bow waves from being forced in the holes.Rich
Quote:_____________________________________________
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Free Spirit, the boat I have an offer on currently. Has moved the windlass aft of the anchor locker and just forward of the deck hatch, so much so that I feel it makes the VBerth useless for adults. I plan to relocate it or come up with a way to move that pipe after the anchor is down. That actually sounds impossible everytime I say it outloud, but I’m still trying to keep an open mind and maybe not have to relocate the windlass.
Deck photo:
VBerth Photo:
Windlass underside in the VBerth:
[/img]Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Patrick,
Have you ever noticed how everything you (I, we) do on a boat is always, to a greater or lesser degree, a compromise?
Free Spirit’s set up appears to stow the chain further aft and lower down than the “official” chain locker. Perhaps that
was the installer’s reasoning.Best of luck with your deal pending!
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Original Message
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yep, totally agree, its all about trade-offs.
Silver Heels wrote:Have you ever noticed how everything you (I, we) do on a boat is always, to a greater or lesser degree, a compromise?
Free Spirit’s set up appears to stow the chain further aft and lower down than the “official” chain locker. Perhaps that
was the installer’s reasoning.
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
I am getting ready to cut a hole through my forward tank so that I can extend my hawse pipe all the way back to the bilge.
I am hoping that the fall is enough to pull the chain through all that pipe (PVC), but I doubt it.
If not, I will either:
1) install a windlass in the bilge to augment the manual windlass on the bow.
2) make the hawse pipe discontinuous in the lower locker (hause pipe to lower locker, then a fall, then another, second hawse pipe to the bilge) That way I could let the chain accumulate in the bow as I do normally, or if going offshore, have a crew member pull the chain into the bilge while winching it in.
Has anyone tried this? One owner in the pacific northwest had a similar arrangement, but used rollers to get the chain around the forward water tank instaed of going through it. He had a manula windlass on the bow and and electric windlass in the bilge.
Thought and comments?
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Walter:
Cutting a couple of holes in the forward water tank sounds like a major
step. While I assume with proper flanges you will be able to make it water
tight again, that is just one more thing that can go wrong. However, I have
wondered about the logistics of moving chain to the bilge for offshore
sailing. Some people will drag it on tarps across the deck. However, your
idea of PVC pipe is an interesting one.You could make up a few sections of PVC pipe that you screw together that
runs from the lower chain locker, over the V berth, across the cabin and
down into the mid ship floor hatch. Before going offshore, quickly screw
together the pipe, and run your chain into the lower bilge. Since you would
not need to this for day to day sailing, it may work as a compromise.Paul
Boundless #28
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Wow, Paul, that is a great idea. What is really good about that is that the hawse pipe that goes throught the upper locker and into the lower locker can be rund back and terminated above the deepest part of the lower locker. Orienting it in this manner would leave the end of the pipe “aiming” for the hatch above the bilge, so an extention pipe would seem natural.
I was not worried about the forward water tank, since I have never once used it. Even if I don’t cut it for the anchor hawse pipe, I will cut a waterproof hatch in it so it can be used as either a water tank or dry storage.
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Sea Spirit has a pretty interesting setup, she pulls here excess chain down into the sewer through a PVC pipe with a windlass.
pic: http://www.searspirit.com/spirit/anchorchain.htm
I am pretty enamored with this as a concept, not to sure how well it is working for Steve the owner though.
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
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