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Anybody know whether all 424’s were built with two anchor roller mounts? I just removed mine and it appears as
though the port one was added at a later time. The wood beneath it had some kind of finish and is in better
condition than the starboard side. The starboard wood was natural and cracked/broken in several places. Just
curious if two rollers was always standard.Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
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Tor,
I'm pretty sure on Sarah (Hull #2) there was only one anchor roller when initially delivered. I have two rollers but they are different makes. I don't know which (if either) is the original.
I'm sure you've noticed on later models Pearson implemented an anchor platform on the bow. That platform most likely came with two rollers, but I've never looked closely at one.John
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Anybody know whether all 424's were built with two anchor roller mounts? I just removed mine and it appears as
though the port one was added at a later time. The wood beneath it had some kind of finish and is in better
condition than the starboard side. The starboard wood was natural and cracked/broken in several places. Just
curious if two rollers was always standard.Tor
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Regards,
John Stevenson
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John,
That sounds about right. My two anchor rollers are almost but not quite the same, again suggesting one was added later. I haven’t seen many newer 424’s. A double-roller platform would probably be an improvement, although my rollers seem to keep the anchors far enough away from the raked stem. Hopefully the platform incorporates a strut to the stem for added support.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
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My boat, #94 , a 1980 model, built in 1979, has an anchor platform with two identical rollers. As far as I can tell, boats delivered with the platform did not have struts to take the anchor loads and were easily bent. Mine was bent when I purchased the boat. I straightened it and added a strut which I copied from another 424 that had been similarly modified. It has worked well.
Phil Fontaine
Aurora
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Tor
Most of the platforms that I have seen on 424s have no support. I have seen a few that have been bent down. I added a platform last year with a strut the only problem is that it is too heavy. I used stainless pipe that was scrap from a friend’s welding shop. I spent hours polishing a schedule 80 pipe that weighs almost as much as the anchor but if I bump into anything the pipe won’t bend.
Linus
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Mine came with a single anchor roller and manual windlass. As far as I can remember, the roller was on the starboard side. I moved the roller to the port side and replaced the manual windlass with electric. The reason for moving the roller was that I wanted to use a Bruce anchor and the special Bruce roller needed to align with the gypsy. I suspect that the windlass was an option, but I think the roller was standard.
I don’t recommend leaving an anchor line over the roller when at anchor. If you use chain, a chain hook with a line run through the chock is safer. If you use line, I think it safer to pull the line through the chock and tie it to a cleat. Just use the roller when setting and retrieving the anchor. You can get several hundred pounds of tension on the anchor rhode; even more in a full storm. Just imagine what would happen if you placed that weight on your roller or anchor platform. Would your roller hold up if you perhaps put the weight of a compact car on it?
I’ve since read reports that claim that the Bruce isn’t all that good an anchor. Odd, since I’ve had very good success with it. I wouldn’t consider it a storm anchor, but for every day use its worked well for me. As I said above, the reason I selected it was that it locks in the roller and won’t bounce around in a seaway. I still tie it off to be safe anyway.
Rich
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Rich,
What size (weight) is your Bruce? How much chain on it?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
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The platform on my boat doesn’t have a large strut supprting it from the bottom; rather it has a small metal arm that attaches to the aft end of a metal plate that is welded between the two tubes of the platform and comes from the stem of the boat. I understand that this adds tremendous support leverage to keep the platform from being bent down. It also looks good(in that you don’t really see it unless you are looking for it). I follow the idea of not letting the rode ride out over the rollers while at anchor. When hauling anchor, I place the rode over the rollers and use the windlass. When I get to the chain portion, I switch down to the gypsy section of the windlass to bring the anchor to rest. I have 5/8 in rode with about 30 feet of chain, so I always lead the rope portion of the rode through a chock and then cleat off. BTW I am using a 45 CQR and have always had good luck with this anchor (blows to 45 kts held well). I am considering adding a manson supreme anchor this year, but have already bought a new plotter so may leave the anchor for now.
Rodd
Windseeker, #214Quote:
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Rodd,
Your anchor platform support strut sounds practical.
That maneuver of switching the anchor rode from the drum to the gypsy can be dicey in 35′ of water, with the anchor and all that chain hanging straight down. You have to actually lift it a foot or so to get some links into the gypsy, and do it quickly before it backslides. Many chain gypsies today can also handle line. Mine does, so I joined the 3/8″ anchor chain and 5/8″ line together with a long warp-to-chain splice (instructions attached). The transition from line to chain in the gypsy is smooth and automatic.
As for switching the anchor rode load off the rollers, since the first 150′ of my primary anchor’s rode is all chain, I employ a snubber once the anchor’s set. My snubber is a 10′ length of 3-strand, 5/8″ nylon line eye-spliced to a strongly-backed eye-bolt in the boat’s stem about 18″ above the waterline. This line is stowed in place, with the other end secured at the bow until I need it. Once my anchor is set, I attach the snubber to the chain with a rolling hitch (you can use a chain hook) and then feed out another 12′ or so of chain. This puts the strain on the snubber and takes it off the chain entirely, which then hands slightly loose from the anchor roller. The snubber removes the strain from the roller, acts as a shock absorber, and lowers the anchor rode’s angle of pull so that you need less scope to achieve a 5:1 or 7:1 scope/depth ratio. For this last reason, it can also make sense to use a snubber with an anchor line, and the snubber will eliminate anchor line chafe.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
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Another option for connecting rope to chain is a crown splice. It's a crown knot through the last chain link with remaining strands spliced back into the rope rather than into the chain. That's what I use to connect 5/8″ rope to 5/16″ chain. It provides a single link transition from chain to rope.
http://www.svsarah.com/Sailing/AtlanticCircle/Images/DSC01463.JPG
JohnOn Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Rodd,Your anchor platform support strut sounds practical.
That maneuver of switching the anchor rode from the drum to the gypsy can be dicey in 35' of water, with the anchor and all that chain hanging straight down. You have to actually lift it a foot or so to get some links into the gypsy, and do it quickly before it backslides. Many chain gypsies today can also handle line. Mine does, so I joined the 3/8″ anchor chain and 5/8″ line together with a long warp-to-chain splice (instructions attached). The transition from line to chain in the gypsy is smooth and automatic.
As for switching the anchor rode load off the rollers, since the first 150' of my primary anchor's rode is all chain, I employ a snubber once the anchor's set. My snubber is a 10' length of 3-strand, 5/8″ nylon line eye-spliced to a strongly-backed eye-bolt in the boat's stem about 18″ above the waterline. This line is stowed in place, with the other end secured at the bow until I need it. Once my anchor is set, I attach the snubber to the chain with a rolling hitch (you can use a chain hook) and then feed out another 12' or so of chain. This puts the strain on the snubber and takes it off the chain entirely, which then hands slightly loose from the anchor roller. The snubber removes the strain from the roller, acts as a shock absorber, and lowers the anchor rode's angle of pull so that you need less scope to achieve a 5:1 or 7:1 scope/depth ratio. For this last reason, it can also make sense to use a snubber with an anchor line, and the snubber will eliminate anchor line chafe.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
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Tor:
Yes I know about the rope to chain splice and the newer gypsies that handle both rope and chain with the splice; however, I guess I am old school and just don’t trust the splice. I prefer to attach the chain with a shackle to the end of the rope. As for switching the rope to chain on the windlass– I find that I normally don’t anchor in anything greater than depths in the miod 20’s. Therefore I almost always make the switch on the gypsy while the anchor is still resting on the bottom– you are correct that if the depth is greater and the whole chain rode and anchor are dangling, it is a bit dicey!! Still able to make the switch tho prefer not to have to!!
One other thing to remember– when using rope rode always put chafe guard on the rope where it passes thru the chock!
Rodd
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Different strokes…
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
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I’ve seen that, John, and it seems to be equally acceptable. I just preferred spreading the strain on the line over a much greater area with the long spice. In fact, I made mine almost twice as long as the example in those instructions, tapering it towards the end.
Whatever. If it works, it works.
Tor
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Tor,
Yes, there are many ways to skin this cat. No matter how the splice is made, if it routinely goes through the roller it should be replaced periodically. I used only 50' of 3/8″ chain on my cruise in Europe and I re-spliced every year. That 50' was wholly inadequate when anchored in 50' of water, which was very common in the Med. Everyone else was riding on all chain. So now I carry 275' of 5/16″ chain and the rope to chain splice has never been within 100' of the deck pipe. So that splice may be good for a long time (unless I sail back to Europe – not likely). Here in the Bahamas that 50' would be more than adequate.
Using a shackle and eye splice for the rope to chain connection works ok as long as you have someone at the helm driving the boat ahead when you need to move the shackle over the chain wheel. For those of us who do a lot of single-handed sailing that is not normally an option. If its blowing more than 15 kts and I need to get the anchor up, pulling the boat forward enough to lift the shackle over the wheel can be a challenge. That's why I went to a rope splice.John
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I've seen that, John, and it seems to be equally acceptable. I just preferred spreading the strain on the line over a much greater area with the long spice. In fact, I made mine almost twice as long as the example in those instructions, tapering it towards the end.Whatever. If it works, it works.
Tor
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http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi All,
My normal anchor is a 75lb Bruce with a 45 lb CQR as the second bow
anchor. I think the second port roller was added by the PO.
All chain for big one, 45 feet chain for little guy with the wierdest
line I’ve ever seen, but very strong.I use two nylon snubbers that run to the chocks and bow cleats.
Stern anchor is a immensely strong Fortress 25 with another 200 feet
of chain. Anyone at the meetup this year can attest to it holding 6
424s in 15+ kts wind. I was amazed.On 2/13/09, Silver Heels <> wrote:
Quote:I’ve seen that, John, and it seems to be equally acceptable. I just
preferred spreading the strain on the line over a much greater area with the
long spice. In fact, I made mine almost twice as long as the example in
those instructions, tapering it towards the end.Whatever. If it works, it works.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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John,
Agreed on all counts (except I don’t recall anchoring in 50′ very often in the Med, and I spent 2+ years there). I may eventually wish I’d put more than 150′ of 3/8″ G4 on this primary anchor, a 45 lb CQR. Was trying to find a happy balance between possible needs vs. weight & cost. The chain is followed by 100′ of 5/8″ 3-strand nylon (with another 200′ in reserve). My second bow anchor, a cumbersome 66 lb Manta, carries 50′ of 3/8″ chain + 200′ rode. I should be fine for the Caribbean with what I’ve got. If I eventually head out to the Pacific maybe I’ll revisit the issue.
Tor
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http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor,
“except I don't recall anchoring in 50' very often in the Med”That's probably because you were smarter than I and didn't cruise the Balearic's at the height of the charter (and European Holiday) season – August. Most of the calas have cordoned 100M or more off the shore to keep jet skiers out of the beach area. So you're starting the anchorage in about 10M of water. If you don't put in before noon the charter boats have all the close in spots taken. When I would arrive the only spots were in over 12M. Of course as soon as I had the hook secure, opened a bottle of wine and started dinner the charter boats would all pull up anchors and head back to the Marina for the evening.
That said, I did find several very nice anchorages in 10M or less. Cala Blanco on Ibiza was particularly nice and uncrowded (no beach).
John
2009/2/13 Alan P < ([email][/email])>
Quote:Rodd,
What plotter did you buy and where are you going to mount it?
alan— On Fri, 2/13/09, Rodd Leeds < ([email][/email])> wrote:
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Alan:
I bought the Garmin 540s and plan to mount it at the helm. I navigate from below with a laptop running Nobeltec. I do get output on my instruments that are mounted on the sea hood just above and forward of the companionway. Actually they are mounted in a teak box that I attach to the seahood. I have always wanted a plotter with charts out at the helm, so I bought this Garmin unit which comes preloaded with all coastal charts as well as Bahamas Explorer charts. The unit has an internal antenna, so all I need is to run a power cord up through the pedestal for 12v. This unit also will double as a plotter/fishfinder on a Grady White center console that my son uses. It comes with a transom mount transducer for the sounder. I will not use the sounder at all on the 424.
I haven’t figured out yet how exactly to mount the unit on the pedestal guard. I guess I’ll buy one of those plastic mounting pods, altho I want to be able to remove the unit and take it back to the Grady White after each weekend on the big boat, so I’ll have to figure out the best mount system for that. any ideas from anyone out there?
Rodd
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Tor
Its a 44lb bruce with about 150′ of 3/8ht chain. The chain needs replacement after 23 years. I’m hesitant right now to go out and spend money on the boat unless I can’t avoid it. I’m sure I’m not alone in this regard. I’m going to inspect the chain this spring and see if I can get another year out of it.Rich
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Tor
While we’re in the anchor mode. Did you post any photos of the finished product in your anchor well rebuild? I am getting ready to install the windlass and the chain locker below looks small. I like the idea of putting a floor in the bottom and installing drains to the exterior. But with the bow down I worry about getting water coming in when heeled over.
Linus
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